justice4nifong: Part One: Judge Ridgeway's rush to convict

Monday, November 18, 2013

Part One: Judge Ridgeway's rush to convict

Part Two of the video will be posted on YouTube as soon as completed, followed by an interactive flog that will contain documents and evidence.

1,085 comments:

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Lance the Supreme Poster of Enlightenment said...: Walt said:

"Here we differ. I heard the judge give NC Pattern Jury Instruction (NCPI) 206.10 which is the main Murder I instruction. What I did not hear was NCPI 206.15 Murder in perpetuation of a felony. "

Unfortunately, I didn't have an opportunity to see the entire trial, so I missed the judge instructions to the jury. Why would the DA's office pursue the "felony of chose in action" charge so aggressively if not to give the jury the FMR option?; November 22, 2013 at 6:43 AM
Anonymous said...: No Walt, the facts about what actually happened in the treatment and subsequent death of Mr. Daye ARE in factual evidence and testified dispute by the state's own expert witness ME, however, the medical records have NOT been entered into evidence to prove or disprove the dispute, or to enter in any other evidence that may be favorable to the defense, and therefore, the basis for a biased and reasonably sound and proven decision cannot be made by any, due to insufficient evidence to prove such a conclusion, based on the reasonable doubts that exist with the evidence as presented.; November 22, 2013 at 6:47 AM
Lance the Supreme Poster of Enlightenment said...: "the facts about what actually happened in the treatment and subsequent death of Mr. Daye ARE in factual evidence..... however, the medical records have NOT been entered into evidence"

So, the facts about the actual treatment ARE in evidence, but the medical records are not?

Where do these "facts about the actual treatment" come from?; November 22, 2013 at 6:57 AM
Walt said...: Lance wrote: "Why would the DA's office pursue the "felony of chose in action" charge so aggressively if not to give the jury the FMR option?"

Dang if I know. I have never been able to fathom what goes on in the Durham Co. DA's office. This may just be another in a long line of really inexplicable trial tactics errors. The larceny of a chose in action charge is certainly not the way I would have tried this case.

Walt-in-Durham; November 22, 2013 at 8:13 AM
Anonymous said...: Thanks, Walt….Good to read the distinction. What's your take on the relationship between the time the jury remains out, and the likelihood of one verdict/level versus another? Perhaps too soon to make a call about length of time they have been out as it may affect a verdict type? Or, do you have any gut feel about what the deliberation time may predict for verdict?
I think you have always said Mangum killed Daye with a deadly weapon…..and that fact…..made possible the ability to go for murder I and murder II. The larceny charged seemed weak to me, though I thought it was strengthened somewhat when both officers testified as to Daye's telling her to give him his money back. It's seemed like the typical DA pile-on behavior that both Nifong and Cline pushed. As I recall Cline was Charles in Charge when the Daye killing happened.; November 22, 2013 at 8:38 AM
Anonymous said...: Still puzzling over Knight and his appearance at the apartment complex. Next trick for Mangum? We never will know the whole story behind Mangum and the DPD…..though it would sure make for some interesting reading. She has gotten passes for a very long time; makes me wonder just how many of the boys on the thin blue line have punched her ticket; November 22, 2013 at 8:44 AM
Anonymous said...: It's a far more compelling case if you consider just why Mangum didn't immediately tell the next door neighbor that she had just stabbed a wild man……if it had been in self defense, of course.
And, one wonders about just exactly how the mattress got back on the bed, with no holes in it, no blood, etc…..if, as Mangum stated under oath, she hid under it while he flung knives at it, and he had her pinned down on it when stabbed him. hmmmm?; November 22, 2013 at 8:48 AM
Anonymous said...: Hey, Walt or Lance, what the racial makeup of the jury? I heard seven male, five female? True?; November 22, 2013 at 8:53 AM
Anonymous said...: I think the premeditation component is the weak leg in the stool for murder one. Hard to get there with the evidence the state presented. But murder II? yep. Manslaughter? most likely…..
But, hey, this is Durham and the "good mother" could walk…..
If she does, and I were the kind of guy into pole vaulting women, I would R-U-N if I saw her heading my way.; November 22, 2013 at 9:09 AM
Anonymous said...: the verdict is in….guilty, murder, second degree; November 22, 2013 at 9:38 AM
Anonymous said...: The camera was on Mangum's face…..when the not guilty verdicts for larceny in chose in action were read. She was grinning! Then came the verdict of guilty of murder, second degree. Her face changed then……
I wonder if she thought she was going to walk…..???; November 22, 2013 at 9:42 AM
Anonymous said...: This is justice for Daye. Nobody is gloating….. I am so impressed with the conduct of the Daye family throughout the trial. Class people.; November 22, 2013 at 9:47 AM
Walt said...: Murder II, definitely higher than what I thought. She convicted herself with her testimony. If she'd said nothing, Manslaughter. But, there's a reason criminal defendants are criminal defendants. They are not generally making good decisions. And Mangum's list of poor decisions is long. Not just limited to trusting Sid and testifying on her own behalf.

Walt-in-Durham; November 22, 2013 at 9:47 AM
Anonymous said...: sentence is 170 to 216 months in prison.; November 22, 2013 at 9:53 AM
Anonymous said...: Walt, does the 170 months include time served? Or is it to be 170 months, starting now?
Meier has said they will appeal, of course.; November 22, 2013 at 9:54 AM
Anonymous said...: The Daye family has my sympathy and my full respect as well. The victim impact statement was short, loving, and to the point.
RIP, Reginald Daye; November 22, 2013 at 9:58 AM
Anonymous said...: Time again to recall certain predictions made in this case:

The state has no case. The state will ultimately dismiss all charges. Mark my words. Crystal will not go to trial. Not if I have anything to say about it.; November 22, 2013 at 10:12 AM
The Rectumfinder said...: I vote 5 - hung jury - because the one juror who places Durham's reputation over justice will hold out for conviction on some charge.

Another swing by Sid, and another miss.

I thought you said the State had no case and were going to drop the charges?

Sid, where should we send you your crying towel?; November 22, 2013 at 10:12 AM
Anonymous said...: Is SIDNEY HARR pulling a Nancy Grace today?; November 22, 2013 at 10:12 AM
Anonymous said...: So did the Daye family ever sue duke as well for their role in the death of Mr. Daye, or was that part of his death deemed a o.k. to them, even though Ms. Mangum was clearly defending herself from Mr. Daye's proven and self-testified voilent behavior against her, and she did not actually kill Mr. Daye with the wound she inflicted in self-defensive , Duke did in their proven professionally negligent, (and quite possibly with malice given the true circumstances), medical treatment of the wound.

what b.s.; November 22, 2013 at 10:18 AM
Anonymous said...: I forgot, give me your address so I can send you a crying towel when the charges against Crystal are dismissed.; November 22, 2013 at 10:22 AM
Walt said...: Anonymous at 9:54 AM wrote: "Walt, does the 170 months include time served? Or is it to be 170 months, starting now?"

That includes time already served. So, in 12 years give or take, she'll be paroled. Looks like a good situation for Mangum. She will finally get the rehabilitative services that the DOC can provide only in a custodial setting.

"Meier has said they will appeal, of course."

Maybe we'll figure out why the State pushed the larceny of a chose in action charge so hard.

Walt-in-Durham; November 22, 2013 at 10:22 AM
Anonymous said...: Anonymous November 22, 2013 at 10:18 AM:

"So did the Daye family ever sue duke as well for their role in the death of Mr. Daye, or was that part of his death deemed a o.k. to them, even though Ms. Mangum was clearly defending herself from Mr. Daye's proven and self-testified voilent behavior against her, and she did not actually kill Mr. Daye with the wound she inflicted in self-defensive , Duke did in their proven professionally negligent, (and quite possibly with malice given the true circumstances), medical treatment of the wound.

what b.s."

More delusional BS from the fabricator.; November 22, 2013 at 10:23 AM
Anonymous said...: more unsupported, uncollaborated, unjustified, facbricated b.s. accussations from the evil duke troll

blah

duke sukes (and apparently always will - 12 years to rehabilitate duke and the urham/duke justice system ??? ok - go - starting now ... ); November 22, 2013 at 10:30 AM
Walt said...: Anonymous at 10:18 wrote: "So did the Daye family ever sue duke as well for their role in the death of Mr. Daye, or was that part of his death deemed a o.k. to them, even though Ms. Mangum was clearly defending herself from Mr. Daye's...."

This matter came to be heard upon Anon at 10:18's motion for absolute dissolution from the state of reality. The court being duly advised in the premises, no FINDS, that Anon at 10:18 is hereby granted a decree of absolute divorce from reality. Be it further, ORDERED, ADJUDGED and DECREED that Anon at 10:18 is hereby relieved of all duties, rights and privileges associated with reality based life.

SO ORDERED this the 22nd day of November, 2013.

The Court of Common Sense

By: Walt-in-Durham; November 22, 2013 at 10:32 AM
Anonymous said...: seriously Walt, now you sit there and do that little bit of trolling, ridiculous, false, and bullying b.s. to me or anyone else?

figures; November 22, 2013 at 10:46 AM
Walt said...: Anonymous at 8:38 AM wrote: "What's your take on the relationship between the time the jury remains out, and the likelihood of one verdict/level versus another?"

Juries spend a day or a week watching a trial. But, they are told not to discuss the trial. So, when they finally get the case and can go back to the jury room the first thing they want to do is talk about the trial. They want to discuss the tactics the lawyers used, they want to talk about who they saw in court, they want to talk about how the defendant acted and they want to talk about what the witnesses said. That takes a while. Call it socializing a shared experience.

Then, they get around to electing a foreperson. Then they sit down to try and figure out the charges, the instructions and maybe some evidence. It all takes time. There is always some conscientious person who wants to explore every inconsistency. Sometimes juries get bogged down, sometimes they don't.

This one had a lot to work through, including a huge red herring in the larceny of a chose in action charge. They had to sort out Duke's awful record keeping. Fortunately they had the excellent and clear testimony of Dr. Clay Nichols to clear up that part of the case.

Then they had to weigh out the self-defense defense. Crystal did herself no favors on that one. Her testimony was about as bad as it could be when it came to self defense. Meier should have confined his questions to the larceny charge. She was prepared for that. Unfortunately, I don't think she gave him the option to do a limited direct examination.

It took the jury some time. I think most court house observers thought she would be convicted after lunch on Thursday. What this deliberation means is the jury gave the case a good hard look and convicted her based on the evidence.

Walt-in-Durham; November 22, 2013 at 10:54 AM
Lance the Supreme Poster of Enlightenment said...: If you haven't seen it, here's the video of the verdict.; November 22, 2013 at 11:06 AM
Anonymous said...: Walt:

As a matter of law, can someone file for moral bankruptcy after they have been granted a divorce from reality?; November 22, 2013 at 11:16 AM
Anonymous said...: If you hear a loud popping noise, do not be alarmed. That is just Sid's paradigm shifting without a clutch.; November 22, 2013 at 11:19 AM
Anonymous said...: Why should anyone agree with the jury decision based upon their inpretations of the non available medical reports and the brief ME reports and the scant bit of evidence and explanations given by the ME in court and on his records? They had nothing to compare the ME reports to since the duke medical reports were not entered into evidence, and there were discrepancies noted in the testimony given by the ME that brought doubt into the evidence of cause of death for a just verdict to have occurred based on Mr. Daye's actual death and circumstances involved in his death that occurred at Duke.

That medical treatment impact to his death needs to be investigated and brought into account and justice wrought in equitable and legal manner as well.

Society in general, and the population of USA citizens exposed and subjected to the direct and indirect consequences of duke's professional influence, responsibility, actions, and medical and legal practices and procedures, deserves, expects, and has the right in professional consideration to nothing less by the Durham NC USA judicial system and Duke.; November 22, 2013 at 11:25 AM
Lance the Supreme Poster of Enlightenment said...: "Why should anyone agree with the jury decision based upon their inpretations..."

Indeed.; November 22, 2013 at 11:28 AM
Anonymous said...: JUSTICE4REGGIE!; November 22, 2013 at 11:29 AM
Anonymous said...: Walt:

Never mind the q1uestion I asked at 11:16. Anonymous at 11:25 answered it.; November 22, 2013 at 11:33 AM
Mary said...: I, too, have been impressed with the conduct of the Daye family throughout….and with their brief statement today.
Some time ago Harr put up a statement saying nobody cared about Daye…..because Daye was an uneducated black man. The truth is that there were and are two people who did not and never have….cared about Daye…..Crystal Mangum and Sidney Harr. That, folks , is the truth.
I am very glad this trial is over…finally. And I hope the Daye family can get some peace. God bless them.
As for Mangum, she has to face the consequences of her behavior…..and she is young enough to come out of prison….somewhere down the line…….and start a new life. I hope she does.; November 22, 2013 at 11:43 AM
Lance the Supreme Poster of Enlightenment said...: Wayyyy back in April, 2012 (when I was still a lowly intern and not the Supreme Poster of Enlightenment), I posted the following:

"My opinion only, but I think it will be plead down to 2nd degree and with her prior criminal record, she'll receive the presumptive sentence, 14-18 years....And they'll take time served into consideration."

Granted there was no plea bargain, but it appears I got the sentencing correct.

See? the "Supreme Poster of Enlightenment" title (while self-appointed) is entirely deserved.

Suck it, bitches....; November 22, 2013 at 11:55 AM
Anonymous said...: Amen, Lance! AMEN; November 22, 2013 at 12:02 PM
A Lawyer said...: Why should anyone agree with the jury decision based upon their inpretations of the non available medical reports

What's an "inpretation"?; November 22, 2013 at 12:04 PM
Anonymous said...: I just came from DIW. I see the fabricator has left evidence of his divorcement from reality on DIW.; November 22, 2013 at 12:14 PM
Anonymous said...: Inpretation: Verb, to inpretate….as in, "I inpretated too much Mad Dog last night. Noun, the inpretation of some women is impossible….no can't make em pretty by inpretating them, no matter how much you drink; November 22, 2013 at 12:15 PM
Anonymous said...: Anonymous November 22, 2013 at 10:30 AM:

"more unsupported, uncollaborated, unjustified, facbricated b.s. accussations from the evil duke troll

blah

duke sukes (and apparently always will - 12 years to rehabilitate duke and the urham/duke justice system ??? ok - go - starting now ... )"

More impotent name calling from the fabricator. More imaginative this time but just as impotent. Go leave another comment on DIW.; November 22, 2013 at 12:18 PM
Anonymous said...: Inpretation sukes; November 22, 2013 at 12:21 PM
Anonymous said...: SIDNEY, have you nothing to say?; November 22, 2013 at 12:22 PM
Anonymous said...: Is anything the fabricator says open to inpretation?; November 22, 2013 at 12:23 PM
Anonymous said...: Might be time for KEN-Malek-HYDER-Williams-AL to publish another Right on comment.; November 22, 2013 at 12:24 PM
Lance the Supreme Poster of Enlightenment said...: Only in urham...; November 22, 2013 at 12:24 PM
Anonymous said...: I am willing to bet Sidney will take one of the following approaches.
1. Sour black grape…..as in, I hope you evil white people are happy, you got what you wanted, you locked up an innocent mother of three,, blah blah blah. OR
2. If ONLY…..if only she had minded me, the bitch, I could have saved her and continued to use her, for at least another crime or two…..OR…
3. I follow the man from Naz and justice the lord's and all that religious mumbo jumbo Sid hypocritically pulls out when he needs it, OR
4., I KNEW all along….as in, I swami sid, knew all along she would get sent up the river because I have knowledge of the evil jihad, and I KNEW she would pay, because Rae Evans was sleeping with the judge. OR
5. Shame shame Shamey……you evil wicked white people and, oh, all you nasty black people who have sold your hides to whitey cracker ass cracker.

Oh perhaps it will be gland slam of flubs and we will get all five verses rolled into one gigantic lSuperFlub; November 22, 2013 at 1:15 PM
The Rectumfinder said...: What's an "inpretation"?

Sidney's gonna find out real soon, because when I find his a$$ I'm gonna inpretate it real good.

And I am gonna find it, because I am the Rectumfinder!; November 22, 2013 at 1:15 PM
Anonymous said...: gland slam??? I made a mis-steak and it looks better than the correct spelling. Perhaps it IS a gland slam!!!!!!!!; November 22, 2013 at 1:17 PM
Anonymous said...: Oh perhaps it will be gland slam of flubs and we will get all five verses rolled into one gigantic lSuperFlub

That sounds likely.; November 22, 2013 at 1:18 PM
Anonymous said...: Oh, the evil mischief of the bad white people will continue………sid will tell us all about how the judge and the jury and the lawyers and god and obama…..all got in cahoots to string up Sister……can't wait…….; November 22, 2013 at 1:19 PM
Anonymous said...: I watched Mangum's testimony again this afternoon. She absolutely screwed herself to the wall……..so many many MANY lies. Oh my gosh, you could tell when she was fixing to lay another lie in there…….she closed her eyes, or, rolled her eyes upward. Licking her lips, raising her eyebrows…..my lord, I hope this woman never gets in a poker game unless she is rich and is playing against me.
So many lies.
On what grounds will she appeal, Walt? Meier didn't have much to which he could object…..and I didn't hear much controversy in the rulings……which, by the way, went Mangum's way several times.; November 22, 2013 at 1:24 PM
Lance the Supreme Poster of Enlightenment said...: In light of today's jury decision, I thought it apropos to share some of Sid's biggest...insights over the last year:

"Mangum needs attorneys as much as she needs leprosy. The fact of the matter is that the prosecution's case against her is non-existent. She could prevail against the charges wearing a blindfold, both hands tied behind her back, and without any legal assistance because the case agaisnt her is non-existent. Not weak, but non-existent!"

"What trial? How many times do I have to tell you that this trumped up piece of bull-hockey is not going to trial. The prosecution will fold like an accordion. They have no other option as their case against Mangum is non-existent, and they lost their only bargaining chip when Mangum was bailed out of jail."

"The end is near as the light is emerging from the far end of the tunnel."

"First, I hate to rain on the parade of naysayers, nonbelievers, ill-willers, detractors, and others of such ilk, but the end of the vendetta-driven prosecutorial campaign is anon. It is my understanding, from reliable sources, that the prosecution has offered a plea deal for manslaughter which carries a 42 month recommended sentence. This joke is a sign of shear desperation on the part of Durham prosecutors. They have no bargaining chip because they not only have no case, but they don't have Mangum in custody."

"I guess that "near" can be a relative term. Let me try to be a little more absolute. Before July 8, 2013, I believe that all charges against Crystal Mangum will be either dropped or dismissed."

"There's no way Mangum should take a plea deal. Face it... the State doesn't have a case!"

"Face it, the prosecution doesn't have a case and I would be shocked if it has the guts to even enter the courtroom with such nonsense."

"It's all irrelevant with respect to the attorney as the prosecution has no case and will probably dismiss the charges unless Holmes is able to force Mangum into accepting a plea deal for time served... (the prosecution's best shot)."; November 22, 2013 at 1:48 PM
A Lawyer said...: Lance, thank you for that excellent collection of quotes. I expect Dr. Harr will claim that he never said those things. Reminds me of someone else:

"She stated that they danced in a bedroom not the living room. When confronted with credible photographic evidence to the contrary, she claimed Duke paid someone to alter the photos. She routinely denied she made various earlier statements that were attributed to her by law enforcement officials. She denied that she had made statements attributed to her in medical reports both the night of the alleged attack and in the ensuing days."; November 22, 2013 at 1:58 PM
Lance the Supreme Poster of Enlightenment said...: Does anyone actually know for sure that Mangum was "offered a plea deal for manslaughter which carries a 42 month recommended sentence"?

If she was, and Sid talked her out of it, he owes her a HUGE apology.; November 22, 2013 at 2:22 PM
kenhyderal said...: "The arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends towards justice"... MLK Jr. This unjust verdict will be appealed.; November 22, 2013 at 2:42 PM
guiowen said...: Well, Sidney, can you see what you've done?
I suggested over a year ago that Crystal's best option was to accept a plea deal for manslaughter. If not, I told you, Crystal would be out of custody some time in 2022.
You criticized me for saying this. Worse yet, you assured Crystal that the state would soon fold, and persuaded her not to accept any plea offered. Thanks to you, Crystal will indeed be out of prison some time in 2022.
Don't you think Crystal deserved better advice?
Please don't tell me that it's all because of some carpetbagger conspiracy and jedi mind-tricks. If such conspiracy did exist, it was all the more reason for Crystal to take a plea deal.
I guess you, Sidney, can't take advice from friends.; November 22, 2013 at 2:50 PM
Anonymous said...: Of course, it will, hissy boy, and you and sidney can raise money to pay for her lawyers.

Meantime, asshat, how about being a man an offering your sympathy to the Daye family? Grow a pair, troll, and admit your girlfriend is a convicted murderer; November 22, 2013 at 2:54 PM
Walt said...: Lance, Definitely a big thanks for the quotes.

Kenhyderal, indeed the arc of history bends toward justice. After a long departure from justice, the arc finally started bending back, at least in so far as Crystal and her victims are concerned.

Walt-in-Durham; November 22, 2013 at 2:56 PM
A Lawyer said...: The arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends towards justice

Yes, justice for Reginald Daye.; November 22, 2013 at 3:00 PM
kenhyderal said...: I'm sorry, that as a result of chronic alcoholism and the medical mishandling of it's consequences Reginald Daye came to his demise. He was certainly not murdered. The application of Welch to this case is invalid as there was no post-operative infection identified. Using the Welch precedent as an excuse not to raise this critical issue subverted Justice for Crystal. Don't party too long. There will be a sequel; November 22, 2013 at 3:19 PM
A Lawyer said...: The application of Welch to this case is invalid as there was no post-operative infection identified. Using the Welch precedent as an excuse not to raise this critical issue subverted Justice for Crystal. Don't party too long. There will be a sequel

You have no clue what you are talking about. There was expert testimony from the ME that Mr. Daye died as a result of a stab wound. The ME was cross-examined. The jury is entitled to believe or disbelieve whatever testimony they choose. This will, in all likelihood, not even be mentioned in the appeal.; November 22, 2013 at 3:31 PM
Anonymous said...: @Lance @2:22 - Yes, she was.

That's perhaps the only part of this story that's truly tragic for Mangum.

Manslaughter would've been an appropriate outcome based on the evidence and she was offered it. But for some reason, ahem, Sid, she decided not to take it.; November 22, 2013 at 3:43 PM
Anonymous said...: How do you know she was offered a plea?; November 22, 2013 at 3:59 PM
Anonymous said...: KENHYDERAL:

"I'm sorry, that as a result of chronic alcoholism and the medical mishandling of it's consequences Reginald Daye came to his demise. He was certainly not murdered. The application of Welch to this case is invalid as there was no post-operative infection identified. Using the Welch precedent as an excuse not to raise this critical issue subverted Justice for Crystal. Don't party too long. There will be a sequel".

Whn? When Kilgo's anonymous, non existent Lacrosse player comes forth?; November 22, 2013 at 4:13 PM
Anonymous said...: KENHYDERAL:

"I'm sorry, that as a result of chronic alcoholism and the medical mishandling of it's consequences Reginald Daye came to his demise. He was certainly not murdered. The application of Welch to this case is invalid as there was no post-operative infection identified. Using the Welch precedent as an excuse not to raise this critical issue subverted Justice for Crystal. Don't party too long. There will be a sequel".

Mark your words?

There will be a sequel if you have anything to say about it?

Where can we mail you a crying towel?; November 22, 2013 at 4:14 PM
Anonymous said...: KENHYDERAL:

"'The arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends towards justice'... MLK Jr. This unjust verdict will be appealed."

What unjust verdict?; November 22, 2013 at 4:18 PM
Anonymous said...: Is SIDNEY HARR seeking asylum in Ecuador ot Venezuela?; November 22, 2013 at 4:20 PM
Anonymous said...: That was a sham of a trial, of evidence to support the absence of reasonable doubt, and of the true guilt in the actual death of Mr. Daye since the wound was nonfatal if treated properly, and Mr. Daye apparently went to the hospital for treatment within an hour of the incident, so the death from the complications is due to the malpractice provided to Mr. Daye, his family and society by Duke (they could have prevented him from dying very easily with the correct treatment of the defensive wound - but they did not).

And all their supporters and dukies and associates remain silent and let the travesty continue - too afraid to stop the injustice and duke's criminal and civil misdeeds. Doesn't say much for them actually.

So do you think duke will stop their nefarious behavior towards others, or will they simply feel they can get away with even more deaths and harm of patients to fill their needs as they see fit?; November 22, 2013 at 5:13 PM
Anonymous said...: Anonymous November 22, 2013 at 5:13 PM:

"That was a sham of a trial, of evidence to support the absence of reasonable doubt, and of the true guilt in the actual death of Mr. Daye since the wound was nonfatal if treated properly, and Mr. Daye apparently went to the hospital for treatment within an hour of the incident, so the death from the complications is due to the malpractice provided to Mr. Daye, his family and society by Duke (they could have prevented him from dying very easily with the correct treatment of the defensive wound - but they did not).

And all their supporters and dukies and associates remain silent and let the travesty continue - too afraid to stop the injustice and duke's criminal and civil misdeeds. Doesn't say much for them actually.

So do you think duke will stop their nefarious behavior towards others, or will they simply feel they can get away with even more deaths and harm of patients to fill their needs as they see fit?"

More uncorroborated allegations from the fabricator.; November 22, 2013 at 5:29 PM
Anonymous said...: no one is partying, troll. No one. The Daye family was grieving today…and their behavior throughout the trial was anything but partying, asshat.
And nobody is partying over Mangum's imprisonment either. That's what is so damn stupid about people like you….who think that white people are evil and black people are victims. Just plain stupid. Mangum EARNED the verdict today by her own choices, pal. She EARNED it.
Sure, there will be an appeal and sure, people like you and the scumbag, Harr, who posted pictures of Mr. Daye…on his deathbed……..people like you will go right on running your mouths. Who gives a damn, pal.
I hope Mangum serves her time in a constructive way and that she comes out of prison a changed woman…..who will never ever again kill. We will see.
As for people like you and Harr, as Lance so eloquently said today, "suck it, bitches".; November 22, 2013 at 5:34 PM
guiowen said...: And you, Kenhyderal,I advised you two years ago to go to Durham and see for yourself the situation there. I even figured out that it would cost less than $1000 to go from Dubai to Raleigh-Durham. Perhaps you could have seen then that it was in Crystal's best interest to plead guilty to manslaughter. Instead you replied that you would let Sidney handle it. I can only conclude that you're not really Crystal's friend.
That, or perhaps you mother won't give you back your passport.; November 22, 2013 at 5:35 PM
Anonymous said...: Po little sista dun gone crazy 'coz dem ebil white boys dun gang raped her in da baffroom.; November 22, 2013 at 5:54 PM
Anonymous said...: In the good old days Crystal Magnum would be hanging from a tree.RIP Reginal Daye.; November 22, 2013 at 5:56 PM
Anonymous said...: Anonymous November 22, 2013 at 5:56 PM:

"In the good old days Crystal Magnum would be hanging from a tree.RIP Reginal Daye."

Even in what were called the good old days, that would have been murder, nothing more.

My sympathies are with the Reginald Daye family, but this advocacy of hatred is nothing but true racism.; November 22, 2013 at 6:29 PM
Anonymous said...: Well this verdict gives Sydney a lifetime of writing lawsuits for Magnum. He can become her pen name.

Well not until the appeal process is over. But once that is fruitless, he can live out his life as a surrogate lawyer.; November 22, 2013 at 7:39 PM
A Lawyer said...: My sympathies are with the Reginald Daye family, but this advocacy of hatred is nothing but true racism.

Amen to that.; November 22, 2013 at 8:46 PM
Anonymous said...: There's just one thing - Ms. Mangum did NOT kill Mr. Daye - duke DID

what b.s.; November 23, 2013 at 12:48 AM
Anonymous said...: 1. No fingerprint evidence given to confirm who was handling the knives or anything else.

2. No explanation as to why the knives were broken (none) or who broke them.

3. No evidence of both sides of mattress to check for knife abrasions from Mr. Daye throwing knives at Ms. Mangum behind it.

4. No real examination of mattress except for pictures and a nontested swab.

5. Mr. Daye went back to apartment so the apartment could have been rearranged by him - he could have moved the knives to the couch if he was looking at them there - he could have moved all the knives actually.

6. He was tested to be drunk enough that day to have been drinking more than beer. He could have taken the bottle with him to the party or elsewhere.

7. The part about Mr. Daye saying something about money was heresay only. The cousin's girlfriend heard the commotion outside - and told the cousin who was asleep - who then went outside and Mr. Daye was not there. People mishear others ALL THE TIME and she stated she was not sure what was being said by Mr. Daye to the cousin when she woke him per his own testimony. Mr Daye could have said, "get over here", like Ms. Mangum said he did (which sounds much more reasonable given when he said that anyway).

8. Mr. Daye's version of the night was given in hearsay evidence only by the domestic violence officer from written notes only that she took from a less than alert Mr. Daye, from his very drunk perspective and memory of that night. Anyone's heresay testimony from a period of time that they were that drunk, (if not passed out), would be questionable at best. What is the conflict of interest to Duke with the inspector - she is obviously working in duke if she is there taking interviews from violence victims. Duke gets millions of millions of reasearch dollars from tax payors to reasearch the same topics (using all of durham, etc. for the quinia pigs of course - hey lets see how badly we can frack them up this time and what they do when we get done playing with them - yeah - that's the ticket - go duke). So, what's her conflict of interest? Was any of that checked out?; November 23, 2013 at 1:28 AM
Anonymous said...: Worst part is the real killer in this game is duke who is sitting there trying not to laugh out loud perhaps, but you know their licking their chops and delighting in their evil plans to get rid of a few more people to meet their goals.

And ... YOU could be NEXT (get in line ya'll - that's what their whisprin' tweenxt themselves); November 23, 2013 at 2:01 AM
Anonymous said...: The conflict of interest with the domestic violence officer, given all that her job entails, probably does involve a lot of professional contact with duke, (if not personal and health services, and perhaps even legal, economic, education and job opportunities, and professional / personal affiliations, etc).

In fact, that conflicts exists in part for almost anyone living and/or working in Durham for that matter who have any type of professional and/or personal, etc., contact with duke, and it has just been shoved in all their faces that duke can kill someone with malpractice to imprison someone everyone knows they hate because everyone's watched them hating her (and have felt that hatred directed at them as well from all the collateral damage of their hate).

right; November 23, 2013 at 3:32 AM
Anonymous said...: Anonymous November 23, 2013 at 12:48 AM

"There's just one thing - Ms. Mangum did NOT kill Mr. Daye - duke DID

what b.s."

Another uncorroborated allegation from the fabricator.; November 23, 2013 at 3:52 AM
Anonymous said...: Why did the state offer a plea deal of manslaughter and when?

If they were comfortable with manslaughter given the evidence they had then, why didn't they present that same favorable evidence at the trial?

All the evidence was NOT given, including the Duke medical reports that detail Mr. Daye's actual demise, and which IS very much in discrepancy to the fired Dr. Nichol's autopsy report.

This is a case for mistrial based on the withholding by the state of evidence favorable to the defendant (if nothing else).; November 23, 2013 at 3:53 AM
Anonymous said...: Anonymous November 23, 2013 at 1:28 AM

"1. No fingerprint evidence given to confirm who was handling the knives or anything else.

2. No explanation as to why the knives were broken (none) or who broke them.

3. No evidence of both sides of mattress to check for knife abrasions from Mr. Daye throwing knives at Ms. Mangum behind it.

4. No real examination of mattress except for pictures and a nontested swab.

5. Mr. Daye went back to apartment so the apartment could have been rearranged by him - he could have moved the knives to the couch if he was looking at them there - he could have moved all the knives actually.

6. He was tested to be drunk enough that day to have been drinking more than beer. He could have taken the bottle with him to the party or elsewhere.

7. The part about Mr. Daye saying something about money was heresay only. The cousin's girlfriend heard the commotion outside - and told the cousin who was asleep - who then went outside and Mr. Daye was not there. People mishear others ALL THE TIME and she stated she was not sure what was being said by Mr. Daye to the cousin when she woke him per his own testimony. Mr Daye could have said, "get over here", like Ms. Mangum said he did (which sounds much more reasonable given when he said that anyway).

8. Mr. Daye's version of the night was given in hearsay evidence only by the domestic violence officer from written notes only that she took from a less than alert Mr. Daye, from his very drunk perspective and memory of that night. Anyone's heresay testimony from a period of time that they were that drunk, (if not passed out), would be questionable at best. What is the conflict of interest to Duke with the inspector - she is obviously working in duke if she is there taking interviews from violence victims. Duke gets millions of millions of reasearch dollars from tax payors to reasearch the same topics (using all of durham, etc. for the quinia pigs of course - hey lets see how badly we can frack them up this time and what they do when we get done playing with them - yeah - that's the ticket - go duke). So, what's her conflict of interest? Was any of that checked out?"

A summation of all the pro Crystal BS in the case.; November 23, 2013 at 3:55 AM
Anonymous said...: Anonymous November 23, 2013 at 2:01 AM:

"Worst part is the real killer in this game is duke who is sitting there trying not to laugh out loud perhaps, but you know their licking their chops and delighting in their evil plans to get rid of a few more people to meet their goals.

And ... YOU could be NEXT (get in line ya'll - that's what their whisprin' tweenxt themselves)"

Yet more uncorroborated allegations from the fabricator.; November 23, 2013 at 3:56 AM
Anonymous said...: Anonymous November 23, 2013 at 3:32 AM:

"The conflict of interest with the domestic violence officer, given all that her job entails, probably does involve a lot of professional contact with duke, (if not personal and health services, and perhaps even legal, economic, education and job opportunities, and professional / personal affiliations, etc).

In fact, that conflicts exists in part for almost anyone living and/or working in Durham for that matter who have any type of professional and/or personal, etc., contact with duke, and it has just been shoved in all their faces that duke can kill someone with malpractice to imprison someone everyone knows they hate because everyone's watched them hating her (and have felt that hatred directed at them as well from all the collateral damage of their hate).

right"

Wrong.; November 23, 2013 at 3:58 AM
Anonymous said...: Anonymous November 23, 2013 at 3:53 AM:

"Why did the state offer a plea deal of manslaughter and when?

If they were comfortable with manslaughter given the evidence they had then, why didn't they present that same favorable evidence at the trial?

All the evidence was NOT given, including the Duke medical reports that detail Mr. Daye's actual demise, and which IS very much in discrepancy to the fired Dr. Nichol's autopsy report.

This is a case for mistrial based on the withholding by the state of evidence favorable to the defendant (if nothing else)."

Prove it. If you can not or will not, it is an uncorroborated allegation.

The prosecution offered Crystal a break. She declined, probably because SIDNEY had her believing she was above the law.; November 23, 2013 at 4:02 AM
Anonymous said...: Where is SIDNEY HARR?; November 23, 2013 at 4:02 AM
Anonymous said...: Where is SIDNEY HARR?

http://www.change.org/petitions/durham-district-attorney-leon-stanback-dismiss-criminal-charges-against-crystal-mangum

Still spinning his wheels, as well as spinning myths about Crystal.; November 23, 2013 at 4:07 AM
Anonymous said...: Actually, SIDNEY's petition has picked up ten signatures, all a year ago.

One signer:

"Danita Johnson DURHAM, NC

Crystal Mangum deserves fair and due process; and, should not have her freedom denied, without consideration all facts concerning her arrest and continued incarceration."

I wonder if Ms. Johnson thought the men Crystal falsely accused deserved "consideration all facts concerning [their] arrest".; November 23, 2013 at 4:12 AM
Anonymous said...: Duke apparently didn't.; November 23, 2013 at 4:27 AM
Walt said...: Anonymous at 3:53 AM wrote: "Why did the state offer a plea deal of manslaughter and when?"

Sid reported that, but I heard the same claim from others. In general the state offers pleas in cases to avoid the time and expense of a trial. They don't want to tie up an ADA preparing and presenting their case if they don't have to. In a great many cases, defendants are willing to plead to get a better deal. Thus, trials are not always necessary.

"If they were comfortable with manslaughter given the evidence they had then, why didn't they present that same favorable evidence at the trial?"

They did present that evidence at trial. It was Crystal who convicted herself by getting on the witness stand and testifying to so many inconsistencies. She upped the conviction from manslaughter to murder. At the time the state offered the deal, they suspected she would be inconsistent, but they could not know that for sure.

"All the evidence was NOT given, including the Duke medical reports that detail Mr. Daye's actual demise, and which IS very much in discrepancy to the fired Dr. Nichol's autopsy report."

To an extent we agree. Duke did a lousy job of recording the treatment of the late Reginald Daye. However, the discrepancy is insignificant. Nichols saw (that is he actually put eyes on the various organs) the results of the medical treatment. He saw the injuries and he saw the repairs. Even though Duke did not note the injuries or the repairs, they were present and witnessed by Dr. Nichols. Thus, poor record keeping by Duke does not raise a reasonable doubt about Dr. Nichols opinion.

"This is a case for mistrial based on the withholding by the state of evidence favorable to the defendant (if nothing else)."

There was no withholding of evidence. NC has open file discovery. The defense had the same information the state had, and more. The defense had their own independent medical examiner whose report they were able to keep from the state until the middle of trial. The defense had Crystal whom they were able to keep from the state until after she had testified. Of course Meier knew that Crystal would offer so many inconsistencies and change her story under cross examination so significantly as to be incredible. Thus, the only withholding of evidence was by the defense. Withholding that is lawful.

No case for a mistrial here. No grounds to reverse on appeal.

Walt-in-Durham; November 23, 2013 at 4:52 AM
Anonymous said...: kenhyderal said...

"I'm sorry, that as a result of chronic alcoholism and the medical mishandling of it's consequences Reginald Daye came to his demise. He was certainly not murdered. The application of Welch to this case is invalid as there was no post-operative infection identified. Using the Welch precedent as an excuse not to raise this critical issue subverted Justice for Crystal. Don't party too long. There will be a sequel"

November 22, 2013 at 3:19 PM

Right

on

kennyhyderal; November 23, 2013 at 5:07 AM
Anonymous said...: Guiowen:

I sounds as though Kenny owes his good friend an apology as well.; November 23, 2013 at 9:12 AM
guiowen said...: Anon 9:12,
I can just imagine his apology: "I'm sorry that, because of some conspiracy, things didn't work out as well as they should."; November 23, 2013 at 9:22 AM
Anonymous said...: Sidney Harr:

116 Saint Marys St Apt 703
Raleigh, NC 27605-1885

Send your crying towels.; November 23, 2013 at 9:35 AM
Anonymous said...: Have there been any interviews with jurors in which the jurors explained their reasoning? I suspect that, contrary to the assurances of Kenny and Sidney, Mangum was not viewed as a credible witness.; November 23, 2013 at 9:37 AM
kenhyderal said...: The kicked in door in itself is enough to demonstrate that Daye was behaving like a raging madman. That and his blood alcohol reading, on arrival at Duke, even after insisting to his nephew that he didn't need to go to Hospital. He, in his police interview, admitted to dragging Crystal by the hair. Any inconsistencies in Crystal's testimony with the hearsay that investigators, arriving on the scene, after the fact, heard was characterized as Crystal lying. Daye was heavier, angrier and grossly intoxicated.; November 23, 2013 at 9:46 AM
Anonymous said...: KENHYDERAL:

"The kicked in door in itself is enough to demonstrate that Daye was behaving like a raging madman."

No it sn't.

"That and his blood alcohol reading, on arrival at Duke, even after insisting to his nephew that he didn't need to go to Hospital."

Like it or not, his blood alcohol was a lab error.

"He, in his police interview, admitted to dragging Crystal by the hair."

He also said that Crystal stabbed him and took his money.

"Any inconsistencies in Crystal's testimony with the hearsay that investigators, arriving on the scene, after the fact, heard was characterized as Crystal lying."

The evidence gathered by the investigators was not hearsay. Crystal characterized herself as a liar before she murdered Reginald Daye, e.g. her contrived account of what happened when she stole a cab.

"Daye was heavier, angrier and grossly intoxicated."

Reginald Daye was also the victim of a fatal stab wound inflicted by Crystal Mangum.

Go look for Kilgo's anonymous non existent Lacrosse player friend, if you want something to take your mind off the fact that it was proven beyond a reasonable doubt to a jury of Crystal's peers that she murdered Reginald Daye.; November 23, 2013 at 9:53 AM
Anonymous said...: Well, Kenny, Crystal is a convicted murderer. I realize that you do not agree with the verdict.

You should not have encouraged her to rely on Harr for any advice--legal or medical. You owe Crystal an apology for relying on his incompetent guidance, which may well have made matters significantly worse.

A bit of advice for you. The next time one of your deal friends is facing trial for a felony... don't treat the trial like a game.; November 23, 2013 at 9:53 AM
Anonymous said...: The ME Doc testified in court that the wound was nonfatal, and could have been survived if not for the complications which he documents as seeing, (although duke does NOT document performing the work or providing medical procedures to indicate what he may have saw and that they may have given medical services for to indicate what he saw, they do however document ignoring anything if it was there because they said it wasn't even though the ME said it was).

Duke also did other things the ME did not note that killed Mr. Daye from what Duke says they did in their records because of and in direct relation to the brain death they induced upon him, but, in any case, the ME testified the wound was NONFATAL except for [whatever duke did or didn't do that killed him].; November 23, 2013 at 10:22 AM
Anonymous said...: The ME Doc testified in court that the wound was nonfatal, and could have been survived if not for the complications which he documents as seeing, (although duke does NOT document performing the work or providing medical procedures to indicate what he may have saw and that they may have given medical services for to indicate what he saw, they do however document ignoring anything if it was there because they said it wasn't even though the ME said it was).

Duke also did other things the ME did not note that killed Mr. Daye from what Duke says they did in their records because of and in direct relation to the brain death they induced upon him, but, in any case, the ME testified the wound was NONFATAL except for [whatever duke did or didn't do that killed him].; November 23, 2013 at 10:24 AM
Anonymous said...: guiowen said...

"And you, Kenhyderal,I advised you two years ago to go to Durham and see for yourself the situation there. I even figured out that it would cost less than $1000 to go from Dubai to Raleigh-Durham. Perhaps you could have seen then that it was in Crystal's best interest to plead guilty to manslaughter. Instead you replied that you would let Sidney handle it. I can only conclude that you're not really Crystal's friend.
That, or perhaps you mother won't give you back your passport."

November 22, 2013 at 5:35 PM

guoiwen,

Your comments obviously are intended to belittle other posters and have no place on this message board. Dr. Harr goes to incredible lengths to create a forum in which there can be a thoughtful and informed discussion of critical issues that face North Carolinians. Please refrain from posting until you are prepared to behave in a civil manner and treat kenhyderal and other posters with the respect they deserve.; November 23, 2013 at 10:59 AM
Anonymous said...: Anonymous November 23, 2013 at 10:22 AM:

"The ME Doc testified in court that the wound was nonfatal, and could have been survived if not for the complications which he documents as seeing, (although duke does NOT document performing the work or providing medical procedures to indicate what he may have saw and that they may have given medical services for to indicate what he saw, they do however document ignoring anything if it was there because they said it wasn't even though the ME said it was).

Duke also did other things the ME did not note that killed Mr. Daye from what Duke says they did in their records because of and in direct relation to the brain death they induced upon him, but, in any case, the ME testified the wound was NONFATAL except for [whatever duke did or didn't do that killed him]."

More uncorroborated allegations from the fabricator.; November 23, 2013 at 11:07 AM
Anonymous said...: Anonymous November 23, 2013 at 10:59 AM:

"guoiwen,

"Your comments obviously are intended to belittle other posters and have no place on this message board. Dr. Harr goes to incredible lengths to create a forum in which there can be a thoughtful and informed discussion of critical issues that face North Carolinians. Please refrain from posting until you are prepared to behave in a civil manner and treat kenhyderal and other posters with the respect they deserve."

Boy are you deluded!; November 23, 2013 at 11:10 AM
Anonymous said...: Please refrain from posting until you are prepared to behave in a civil manner and treat kenhyderal and other posters with the respect they deserve.

Guiowen does treat Kennyhyderal with the respect he deserves. Perhaps you should apologize to guiowen for your inappropriate allegation.; November 23, 2013 at 11:13 AM
Nifong Supporter said...: Anonymous said...
Dr. Harr,

If those other organs actually were damaged like Dr. Nichols testifies, if they were not repaired immediately because they were not noted or treated as indicated and documented on duke's medical reports,
would Mr. Daye have presented with more severe reactions to the negligent treatment of his wound immediately after or in closer proximity to the surgery that did not repair all damage as recorded in the medical records but in discrepancy to the ME reports?

What negative medical reactions would Mr. Daye have presented with in the event his other organs were not repaired promptly as recorded in the medical records?

It is hard to assess the outcome to perforations of the left lung and diaphragm without knowing the extent. A perforation to the stomach would cause severe peritonitis that would lead to death if not recognized and treated immediately.

Regarding the kidney, again, it would depend on the extent of the perforation.; November 23, 2013 at 11:14 AM
Nifong Supporter said...: Anonymous said...
The ME Doc testified in court that the wound was nonfatal, and could have been survived if not for the complications which he documents as seeing, (although duke does NOT document performing the work or providing medical procedures to indicate what he may have saw and that they may have given medical services for to indicate what he saw, they do however document ignoring anything if it was there because they said it wasn't even though the ME said it was).

Duke also did other things the ME did not note that killed Mr. Daye from what Duke says they did in their records because of and in direct relation to the brain death they induced upon him, but, in any case, the ME testified the wound was NONFATAL except for [whatever duke did or didn't do that killed him].

The stab wound was non-fatal, and it was the intervening act of the esophageal intubation that resulted in Daye's brain death.

Mangum's attorney pulled punches to protect Duke University Hospital... referring to the complication of the stab wound as being an infection and the infection being responsible for his death. Meier may have tried to win an acquittal for Mangum, but he did his fighting with one hand tied behind his back as his number one priority was obviously to protect Duke University Hospital. He talked Mangum out of having Roberts report introduced... a big mistake. Mangum's reluctance to heed my advice and place her fate in the attorney's hands solely is why I distanced myself from her.; November 23, 2013 at 11:20 AM
Anonymous said...: SIDNEY HARR:

"
It is hard to assess the outcome to perforations of the left lung and diaphragm without knowing the extent. A perforation to the stomach would cause severe peritonitis that would lead to death if not recognized and treated immediately.

Regarding the kidney, again, it would depend on the extent of the perforation."

For an untrained, inexperienced, questionably competent physician, it is difficult to assess the extent of injuries, let alone treat them properly.

Did you get tired of waiting for asylum in either Ecuador or Venezuela?; November 23, 2013 at 11:21 AM
Anonymous said...: SIDNEY HARR:

"The stab wound was non-fatal, and it was the intervening act of the esophageal intubation that resulted in Daye's brain death.

Mangum's attorney pulled punches to protect Duke University Hospital... referring to the complication of the stab wound as being an infection and the infection being responsible for his death. Meier may have tried to win an acquittal for Mangum, but he did his fighting with one hand tied behind his back as his number one priority was obviously to protect Duke University Hospital. He talked Mangum out of having Roberts report introduced... a big mistake. Mangum's reluctance to heed my advice and place her fate in the attorney's hands solely is why I distanced myself from her."

You have just documented you are a questionably competent physician.; November 23, 2013 at 11:25 AM
Anonymous said...: What would the Roberts report have done except corroborate the ME's testimony? Instead of a single medical expert testifying that Daye died as a result of complications from the stab wound inflicted by Mangum there would be two saying that Mangum killed Daye. How would that have helped Mangum?; November 23, 2013 at 11:32 AM
Anonymous said...: SIDNEY HARR:

Did Ecuador and Venezuela tell you they did not want you?

Did you see your address on a post? I bet you are eagerly awaiting a supply of crying towels.; November 23, 2013 at 11:48 AM
Anonymous said...: Sidney,

You and Kenny both said that Mangum would be a credible witness. Most observers thought her testimony was a disaster for the defense.

She may have decided to testify based on your recommendations. When are you and Kenny going to apologize for that bad advice?; November 23, 2013 at 12:10 PM
Anonymous said...: KENHYDERAL:

Check this out:

http://s1.zetaboards.com/Liestoppers_meeting/topic/5295246/9/

This page of the appropriately named liestoppers has police statements made in 2002, years before the Lacrosse case describing what happened when Crystal stole the cab.; November 23, 2013 at 12:19 PM
Anonymous said...: It was coersive of Mr. Meier to wait until the trial for Ms. Mangum to have to insist to the judge again that she receive a written report from the second ME Dr. Roberts. It was also questionable for the judge to allow her to do so without also providing her with a continuance of trial and enough time in which to prepare the evidence for trial with her newly assigned legal council.

Having Ms. Mangum make a sudden decision like that of so much importance as to whether to enter the second report into the trial and question any medical discrepancies of importance to the trial from there, (especially without her lawyer's support, preparation, nor quarantee of a reasonable, equitable, and fair service of defense council if she made that decision without his backing), put her in a position that she could perhaps use as well to argue for a mistrial and the chance at a more fair and equal trial and legal counsel to assist in her complete (UNduke/ME/state politics fettered) defense.; November 23, 2013 at 1:28 PM
guiowen said...: anonymous 10;50,
I'm sorry the truth hurts.; November 23, 2013 at 1:37 PM
Anonymous said...: I would ask the ME's, the surgeons, the physicians, nurses, anethesiologists, etc., etc., to detail exactly what they did or didn't do, why, how and what for, and how exactly whatever they did or didn't do had a direct negative effect on Mr. Daye's death.

That would be the only way to determine the exact cause of death at this point of time given all the discrepancies in all the medical and autopsy reports.

There IS a possibility the knife wound had nothing at all to do with Mr. Daye's death, that the knife wound caused NO complications, was not fatal, and therefore, Ms. Mangum could NOT have murdered Mr. Daye as she did not kill him (which has already been proven in the Duke medical reports and needs to be fully investigated, documented, and proceeded upon legally). That fact cannot be legally just ignored.; November 23, 2013 at 1:52 PM
Anonymous said...: Medical malpractice is not an intervening cause. If you don't think that is fair, then I suggest you work to change the law. This is not the forum to accomplish that.; November 23, 2013 at 2:00 PM
Anonymous said...: Anonymous November 23, 2013 at 1:52 PM:

"There IS a possibility the knife wound had nothing at all to do with Mr. Daye's death, that the knife wound caused NO complications, was not fatal, and therefore, Ms. Mangum could NOT have murdered Mr. Daye as she did not kill him (which has already been proven in the Duke medical reports and needs to be fully investigated, documented, and proceeded upon legally). That fact cannot be legally just ignored."

That the knife wound had everything to do with Reginald Daye's death was infinitely greater.

If you believe Dr. Nichols testified that the wound was not lethal, you are ignorant.; November 23, 2013 at 2:03 PM
Anonymous said...: That is what Dr. Nichols said at the trial of the wound he said he saw in the body of the Mr. Daye he did an autopsy on for this case. That is what I believe he believes since that is what he said at the trial (and he's the esteemed expert eye witness ME doc - not me).; November 23, 2013 at 2:16 PM
Anonymous said...: Anonymous November 23, 2013 at 2:16 PM:

"That is what Dr. Nichols said at the trial of the wound he said he saw in the body of the Mr. Daye he did an autopsy on for this case. That is what I believe he believes since that is what he said at the trial (and he's the esteemed expert eye witness ME doc - not me)."

Dr. Nichols was asked if Reginald Daye could have survived the wound. His reply was yes if he had not suffered an infection. That is not the same as saying the wound was not lethal.

The stab wound injured several organs including the stomach and colon. That is what subjected Reginald Daye to the risk of infection. Once he was subjected to the risk, it would have been impossible to completely eliminate the risk.

Crystal Mangum killed Reginald Daye.; November 23, 2013 at 2:39 PM
Anonymous said...: Intentional negligent medical malpractice is an intervening cause in a criminal death with similar circumstances as the Ms. Mangum/Mr. Daye case. There is reasonably probable malice, intention, motive, opportunity of crime and time to plan the crime, perfect means for a coverup, an entitlement fueled and fed shirking of responsibility and justice, and a pattern of malicious actions against Ms. Mangum and similar in duke's prejudicial and discriminatory past and present histories, etc. The elements and evidence for the crime are all there.

Just need the justice system to stop playing games when it involves duke and 'do something about it'. Something yet to be seen.; November 23, 2013 at 2:42 PM
Anonymous said...: Actually, the state said he didn't have the right to determine the answer to that question, which he said yes to anyway when asked something similar to the question: could a person survive that knife wound? In other words, was it a nonfatal knife wound? He said Yes (it was nonfatal).

Actually though, the question should have been: was there a possibility of Mr. Daye surviving his medical stay at duke if they could get away with murdering him and thus frame Ms. Mangum for his death instead? That would have been a more fitting question for this trial, and one I am sure the weary looking Dr. Nichols would have answered a prompt, yet sad, No to.; November 23, 2013 at 2:56 PM
kenhyderal said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; November 23, 2013 at 3:00 PM
kenhyderal said...: Anonymous @ 1:52 said: "I would ask the ME's, the surgeons, the physicians, nurses, anethesiologists, etc., etc., to detail exactly what they did or didn't do, why, how and what for, and how exactly whatever they did or didn't do had a direct negative effect on Mr. Daye's death. That would be the only way to determine the exact cause of death at this point of time given all the discrepancies in all the medical and autopsy reports.
There IS a possibility the knife wound had nothing at all to do with Mr. Daye's death, that the knife wound caused NO complications, was not fatal, and therefore, Ms. Mangum could NOT have murdered Mr. Daye as she did not kill him (which has already been proven in the Duke medical reports and needs to be fully investigated, documented, and proceeded upon legally). That fact cannot be legally just ignored"...................I concur entirely with this assessment. I would add to your list the Laboratory Technician that did the blood alcohol determination and the respiratory care practitioner who supposedly did the initial endo-tracheal intubation that had to be removed and redone. In order for Welch to apply it would have to be shown that a post-surgical infection was the cause of death. This would require a competent Defence that called forth the appropriate witnesses to testify and a Prosecutor, like former DA Nifong that was seeking to find the truth rather then one engaging in a vendetta prosecution like Coggins-Franks who wrongly dragged in the incident with Milton Walker; November 23, 2013 at 3:03 PM
Anonymous said...: Intentional negligent medical malpractice is an intervening cause in a criminal death with similar circumstances as the Ms. Mangum/Mr. Daye case.

Agreed. The key word is intentional.

There is reasonably probable malice, intention, motive,

No one has provided credible evidence to support malice intention, motive on the part of anyone.

opportunity of crime and time to plan the crime, perfect means for a coverup, an entitlement fueled and fed shirking of responsibility and justice,

This is meaningless filler.

and a pattern of malicious actions against Ms. Mangum

There is no evidence to support the allegation that there was a pattern of malicious actions against Mangum.

and similar in duke's prejudicial and discriminatory past and present histories, etc.

I have no idea what this means.

The elements and evidence for the crime are all there.

If there is evidence to support this theory, then I suggest you provide it.

Just need the justice system to stop playing games when it involves duke and 'do something about it'. Something yet to be seen.

The justice system does not spring into action because something could have happened. You provide evidence. Otherwise there is not sufficient cause even to justify an investigation.; November 23, 2013 at 3:11 PM
Anonymous said...: Kenny falsely claims:

In order for Welch to apply it would have to be shown that a post-surgical infection was the cause of death.

This assessment is false. An infection is not the only intervening cause. Medical malpractice is NOT an intervening cause. Moreover, because DTs can be brought on by trauma or infection, malpractice resulting from the treatment of DTs in NOT an intervening cause. Finally, a preexisting condition is NOT an intervening cause.

While this information may be interesting, the answers do not relieve Mangum of responsibility for Daye's death.

Kenny, I suggest that you provide some actual court decisions that counter Welch. Without precedent, your claims that Welch is not applicable are not persuasive.; November 23, 2013 at 3:25 PM
Anonymous said...: The evidence is Mr. Daye's death at Duke hospital under their medical services, the discrepancies between the autopsy reports and the medical reports, and the medical reports and the procedures and practices they document that led to the death of Mr. Daye. That is the evidence. Who does the investigation and how is the investigation initiated?; November 23, 2013 at 3:27 PM
Anonymous said...: Kenny proves without doubt that he is a troll:

a Prosecutor, like former DA Nifong that was seeking to find the truth

Nifong, who brought a case that he later conceded had no credible evidence to support the charges, who never interviewed the accuser in a case with no evidence to support it other than the accusation, who avoided a probable cause hearing by indicting the defendants prior to arrest, who refused to accept the exculpatory evidence uncovered by the defense, who made no attempt to have the DPD conduct a real investigation... was seeking to find the truth.

You have demonstrated the truth. Kennyhyderal is a troll.; November 23, 2013 at 3:32 PM
Anonymous said...: Who does the investigation and how is the investigation initiated?

I suggest that you go immediately to the nearest Durham Police station and ask to file a formal criminal complaint.; November 23, 2013 at 3:34 PM
Anonymous said...: R
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a
l; November 23, 2013 at 3:34 PM
Anonymous said...: I think duke is just sitting there doing another research public mind control project at this point. Just waiting to see if ANYONE in the justice system has enough gumption to actually do the right thing and hold them accountable for what they've done and how Ms. Mangum and Mr. Daye were treated by them with the state's approval and backing. Still shaking my head in amazement at the latest duke/durham in wonderland episode. Never stops ... ever.

I say we put those medical records into a really big homemade cardboard stop sign, paint it bright red with huge white STOP letters on it, and 'roll' it into their hospital front door drive. We'll alert the media, and invite all city and state patients, etc. to join in the Stop Duke's Criminal and Civil Madness fund raiser campaign, (donations will be taken for any needed lawyers).

... Then we'll have a bonfire with the sign in the middle of the circle (after carefully sealing the medical records back into their legal envelopes and securing for the newly announced trial against duke for Mr. Daye's death), and celebrate one more giant step for mankind in the long trek for legal justice and civil freedom for all.

Or - someone could just ask the DA directly if he will please investigate this case properly and fix the problems like he said he would.; November 23, 2013 at 3:56 PM
Anonymous said...: Point One. The verdict is in and Mangum's murdering backside is in prison, for a long time.
Point Two. I, for one, do not give a good goddamn what sidney harr thinks. I doubt anybody other than Victoria, Jackie Dumbass. troll, and his daughter do either.
Point Three. Sidney Harr can run his mouth till his teeth fall out. And use all the verses of his silly "ooooo, poor us, we're black and we're victims" song that he wants.
Point Four. Reginald Daye and his family have gotten justice.
Point Five. As Lance so perfectly stated, to sidney hard and all his asshat bigots, "suck it , bitches".; November 23, 2013 at 4:05 PM
Anonymous said...: KENHYDERAL:

"There IS a possibility the knife wound had nothing at all to do with Mr. Daye's death, that the knife wound caused NO complications, was not fatal, and therefore, Ms. Mangum could NOT have murdered Mr. Daye as she did not kill him"

The word you should have used is probability. The probability that Crystal did not cause Mr. Daye's death is as low as the probability that Kilgo's anonymous, non existent Lacrosse player friend will ever appear. That DOES NOT constitute reasonable doubt. That must be the reason why you, a medical expert NOT!!!! believes that Crystal did not kill Mr. Daye.

"(which has already been proven in the Duke medical reports and needs to be fully investigated, documented, and proceeded upon legally). That fact cannot be legally just ignored"...................I concur entirely with this assessment."

The Medical record DOES NOT prove that Reginald Daye did not die from the stab wound. That comes from SIDNEY HARR. I point out to you again, SIDNEY is an untrained, inexperienced, questionably competent physician whose opinions in matters medical and legal counts for nothing.

"I would add to your list the Laboratory Technician that did the blood alcohol determination and the respiratory care practitioner who supposedly did the initial endo-tracheal intubation that had to be removed and redone. In order for Welch to apply it would have to be shown that a post-surgical infection was the cause of death."

You are absolutely wrong there.

"This would require a competent Defence that called forth the appropriate witnesses to testify and a Prosecutor, like former DA Nifong that was seeking to find the truth rather then one engaging in a vendetta prosecution like Coggins-Franks who wrongly dragged in the incident with Milton Walker"

In the words of John McEnroe, Are you serious. You say Crystal was forced to identify members of the Lacrosse team as her assailants. Corrupt DA NIFONG caused the improper lineup to happen. You say the police never identified from whom the non LAX DNA found on Crystal came. Corrupt DA NIFONG controlled the Police investigation. Corrupt DA NIFONG also tried to conceal that DNA which did not match any Lacrossse player was the only DNA found on Crystal.

Do you really think corrupt DA NIFONG was seeking the truth after Crystal made her allegations of rape. If so, it is understandable why you consider an untrained inexperienced questionably physician as an authoritative source on matters medical and legal.; November 23, 2013 at 4:11 PM
Anonymous said...: Anonymous November 23, 2013 at 3:56 PM:

"I think duke is just sitting there doing another research public mind control project at this point. Just waiting to see if ANYONE in the justice system has enough gumption to actually do the right thing and hold them accountable for what they've done and how Ms. Mangum and Mr. Daye were treated by them with the state's approval and backing. Still shaking my head in amazement at the latest duke/durham in wonderland episode. Never stops ... ever.

I say we put those medical records into a really big homemade cardboard stop sign, paint it bright red with huge white STOP letters on it, and 'roll' it into their hospital front door drive. We'll alert the media, and invite all city and state patients, etc. to join in the Stop Duke's Criminal and Civil Madness fund raiser campaign, (donations will be taken for any needed lawyers).

... Then we'll have a bonfire with the sign in the middle of the circle (after carefully sealing the medical records back into their legal envelopes and securing for the newly announced trial against duke for Mr. Daye's death), and celebrate one more giant step for mankind in the long trek for legal justice and civil freedom for all.

Or - someone could just ask the DA directly if he will please investigate this case properly and fix the problems like he said he would."

More garbage from the fabricator.; November 23, 2013 at 4:13 PM
Anonymous said...: Anonymous November 23, 2013 at 3:27 PM

"The evidence is Mr. Daye's death at Duke hospital under their medical services, the discrepancies between the autopsy reports and the medical reports, and the medical reports and the procedures and practices they document that led to the death of Mr. Daye. That is the evidence. Who does the investigation and how is the investigation initiated?"

More garbage from the fabricator; November 23, 2013 at 4:16 PM
Anonymous said...: KENHYDERAL:

There was no evidence of an esophageal intubation. That claim comes from SIDNEY HARR who, probably, has never done an intubation in his life.; November 23, 2013 at 4:19 PM
Anonymous said...: KENHYDERAL:

Next, I bet, you will claim that Kilgo has contacted you and told you he has an anonymous friend who was a witness to the esophageal intubation.; November 23, 2013 at 4:20 PM
Anonymous said...: KENHYDERAL:

What was wrong about having Milton Walker testify to Crystal's bad past behavior.

When I asked you how corrupt DA NIFONG established probable cause that members of the Lacrosse team raped Crystal, you cited the alleged bad behavior of the Lacrosse team.

Can we say HYPOCRITE!!!!, boys and girls.; November 23, 2013 at 4:24 PM
Anonymous said...: Anonymous November 23, 2013 at 2:56 PM

Actually, the state said he didn't have the right to determine the answer to that question, which he said yes to anyway when asked something similar to the question: could a person survive that knife wound? In other words, was it a nonfatal knife wound? He said Yes (it was nonfatal)."

Dr. Nichols DID NOT say the wound was not fatal.

"Actually though, the question should have been: was there a possibility of Mr. Daye surviving his medical stay at duke if they could get away with murdering him and thus frame Ms. Mangum for his death instead? That would have been a more fitting question for this trial, and one I am sure the weary looking Dr. Nichols would have answered a prompt, yet sad, No to."

You are saying the DA should have lead Dr. Nichols into giving testimony which would exonerate Crystal. No he should not have.

Dr. Nichols stood by the conclusion he put on the autopsy report, that Reginald Daye died as a result of the stab wound Crystal inflicted on him.

What convicted Crystal was not Dr. Nichols' conclusion. It was the way Crystal defended herself> Her testimony, that Reginald Daye beat her, that she acted in self defense, was not credible.; November 23, 2013 at 5:31 PM
Anonymous said...: I say we put those medical records into a really big homemade cardboard stop sign, paint it bright red with huge white STOP letters on it, and 'roll' it into their hospital front door drive. We'll alert the media, and invite all city and state patients, etc. to join in the Stop Duke's Criminal and Civil Madness fund raiser campaign, (donations will be taken for any needed lawyers).

... Then we'll have a bonfire with the sign in the middle of the circle (after carefully sealing the medical records back into their legal envelopes and securing for the newly announced trial against duke for Mr. Daye's death), and celebrate one more giant step for mankind in the long trek for legal justice and civil freedom for all.

This is one of the best ideas I have heard. Go for it. All of Duke's many victims will be grateful.; November 23, 2013 at 5:57 PM
kenhyderal said...: Anonymous said: "When I asked you how corrupt DA NIFONG established probable cause that members of the Lacrosse team raped Crystal, you cited the alleged bad behavior of the Lacrosse team".... Yeah, but if the case had ever gotten into court that would have or at least should have been un-admissible; November 23, 2013 at 8:40 PM
kenhyderal said...: Anonymous said: What convicted Crystal was not Dr. Nichols' conclusion. It was the way Crystal defended herself> Her testimony, that Reginald Daye beat her, that she acted in self defense, was not credible""...... Daye started the altercation in a jealous rage. Crystal had no motive for beginning an assault on Daye. What possible motive could Crystal of had for attacking Daye with knives. Daye was the aggressor. He admitted to trying to violently restrain her. He kicked open a locked door behind which she sought refuge. His size, his violent rage and his gross intoxication all point to Crystal being in a frightening and threatening situation; November 23, 2013 at 8:55 PM
kenhyderal said...: Anonymous said: "There was no evidence of an esophageal intubation. That claim comes from SIDNEY HARR who, probably, has never done an intubation in his life"....... Can you speculate, then, on why the first endo-tracheal tube was removed?; November 23, 2013 at 8:59 PM
guiowen said...: Kenhyderal,
Stop whining.; November 23, 2013 at 10:00 PM
Anonymous said...: Kenny,

You intentionally miss the point. She made a terrible witness. The jury concluded that she lied about too many things. They concluded that she wasn't credible. they didn't believe her.

I know you believe that every statement of Crystal should be analyzed separately and taken as true unless it can be proven that that particular statement cannot possibly be true. For some reason, the jury did not react that way.

Crystal made a mistake when she decided to testify (apparently against Meier's recommendation). You should apologize to her if you influenced this decision.; November 23, 2013 at 10:01 PM
Anonymous said...: Sidney,

Admit it.

Crystal Mangum is guilty of murder.; November 23, 2013 at 10:05 PM
Anonymous said...: Kenny,

Are coming to Durham for the Stop Duke Criminal and Civil Madness rally?; November 23, 2013 at 11:05 PM
Anonymous said...: KENHYDERAL:

"Anonymous said: "There was no evidence of an esophageal intubation. That claim comes from SIDNEY HARR who, probably, has never done an intubation in his life"....... Can you speculate, then, on why the first endo-tracheal tube was removed?"

First, if you read the records SIDNEY illegally accessed and posted, you would read that a direct laryngoscopy was done and showed the tube was in the trachea. SIDNEY says that was incorrect. That is why I say I believe SIDNEY has never done an intubation in his life. It is virtually impossible to mistake tube placement on direct laryngoscopy.

There is no need to speculate on why the tube was replaced. It was not working. It is possible to place a tube correctly and have it not work properly. That happened recently to the father of a friend of mine.

SIDNEY says the esophageal intubation was done deliberately to kill Reginald Daye. If that were true, then why did Duke personnel try to replace the tube? If Duke had wanted to kill Reginald Daye, it would have been easier just to let him go and then say in the record that he died after intubation.

Dr. Anonymous; November 24, 2013 at 3:37 AM
Anonymous said...: Anonymous November 23, 2013 at 5:57 PM:

"I say we put those medical records into a really big homemade cardboard stop sign, paint it bright red with huge white STOP letters on it, and 'roll' it into their hospital front door drive. We'll alert the media, and invite all city and state patients, etc. to join in the Stop Duke's Criminal and Civil Madness fund raiser campaign, (donations will be taken for any needed lawyers).

... Then we'll have a bonfire with the sign in the middle of the circle (after carefully sealing the medical records back into their legal envelopes and securing for the newly announced trial against duke for Mr. Daye's death), and celebrate one more giant step for mankind in the long trek for legal justice and civil freedom for all.

This is one of the best ideas I have heard. Go for it. All of Duke's many victims will be grateful."

More garbage from the fabricator.; November 24, 2013 at 3:40 AM
Anonymous said...: KENHYDERAL:

"Anonymous said: "When I asked you how corrupt DA NIFONG established probable cause that members of the Lacrosse team raped Crystal, you cited the alleged bad behavior of the Lacrosse team".... Yeah, but if the case had ever gotten into court that would have or at least should have been un-admissible"

If it "would have or at least should have been un-admissible", then corrupt DA NIFONG should have never used it to establish probable cause. Why do you believe it was proper for corrupt DA NIFONG to use the team's alleged bad behavior in an attempt to wrongfully convict them?; November 24, 2013 at 3:44 AM
Anonymous said...: KENHYDERAL:

"Daye started the altercation in a jealous rage."

According to what the investigators found, that was not the case. There was no evidence on physical exam that Crystal was beaten.

"Crystal had no motive for beginning an assault on Daye. What possible motive could Crystal of had for attacking Daye with knives."

Just pure unadulterated violent anger. She dd attack Milton Walker out of anger.

"Daye was the aggressor. He admitted to trying to violently restrain her. He kicked open a locked door behind which she sought refuge. His size, his violent rage and his gross intoxication all point to Crystal being in a frightening and threatening situation".

What you omit is that both were intoxicated and both were fighting. Only it was Crystal who stabbed Reginald Daye and inflicted a fatal wound on him.; November 24, 2013 at 3:49 AM
Anonymous said...: KENHYDERAL:

You miss the point. If Crystal was the victim of a violent attack, why did she not say so at the time she was arrested? SIDNEY claims that the police read her her Miranda rights it was to prevent her from claiming self defense. Anyone who believes that is truly deluded. Why were there no physical findings(just like there were no physical findings of rape after she alleged she was raped)? She did not claim self defense until after Reginald Daye had died and she was charged with Murder 1.

That all adds up to a non credible witness. Her lawyer did not want her to take the stand. Why did she? Probably because SIDNEY had her convince the state had no case.

She could have taken a deal and pleaded to a lesser charge. Again, because of SIDNEY's interference she refused to do so.

Crystal abnd Crystal alone was the source of her troubles.; November 24, 2013 at 3:57 AM
Anonymous said...: Better yet, to make US all proud and take note of yet another of dukes great achievements - and cheer yeah duke once again (or even once): the duke students will volunteer to stage the actual rally (so they won't get arrested or their heads blown off by the duke cops for no reason ... perhaps).

THEY will make US all very proud indeed and take notice of their advancement in legal and civil human relations with an agreement that things seriously should not actually BE so friggin' evil at duke - perhaps they will even consider switching to a less evil mascot - or at least agree not to emulate it (especially in health matters).

To make the proud of duke newbies and joiner ins even prouder - all the duke legal and judicial (even admin. & corp. & co. - hey dream big) will join together to legally, judicially, and officially stop this criminal and civil madness that IS duke these days.

That would be a sight to see don't you think. AND ... noone would get arrested (or killed by a cop) ... cept for perhaps a doc or two (well not killed by a cop cept they be a needin it ... you know).; November 24, 2013 at 3:59 AM
Anonymous said...: Here's a prediction.
This web site, flub, or blob, whatever Harr wishes to call it, is going to become increasingly boring, repetitive, useless as tits on a boar, and with even less substance.
Harr will continue to sink further into his racist-fed delusions, hissy boy will continue to whine and the English-challenged halfwit who thinks Duke is the anti-Christ will continue to blame Duke for everything from climate change to pimples.
BORING….
Mangum is gone…at least for a few years. It's up to her to straighten out her life. I hope she does. The Daye family will grieve and heal. At least the town of Durham will have one less sex worker to worry about.
Walt, I have really enjoyed asking you questions about the law and learning from you. Lance, your posts always make me laugh……I LOVED the "suck it, bitches"!!!! A Lawyer and the Anon physician(s) who have posted here, thank you for your injection of reality into the conversation.
I have two parting comments. One, RIP Reginald Daye. Two, Go Duke!!!!; November 24, 2013 at 4:53 AM
Anonymous said...: Anonymous 3:40:

Are you a moron? I suggest you look up the word "sarcasm" and reread the comment at 5:57.; November 24, 2013 at 9:06 AM
Nifong Supporter said...: Anonymous said...
Sidney,

Admit it.

Crystal Mangum is guilty of murder.

I will not admit to a fallacy. The stab wound was non-fatal. It was the intervening action of the esophageal intubation which was responsible for Daye's brain death and subsequent death. That is the fact.; November 24, 2013 at 11:07 AM
Nifong Supporter said...: Anonymous said...
Point One. The verdict is in and Mangum's murdering backside is in prison, for a long time.
Point Two. I, for one, do not give a good goddamn what sidney harr thinks. I doubt anybody other than Victoria, Jackie Dumbass. troll, and his daughter do either.
Point Three. Sidney Harr can run his mouth till his teeth fall out. And use all the verses of his silly "ooooo, poor us, we're black and we're victims" song that he wants.
Point Four. Reginald Daye and his family have gotten justice.
Point Five. As Lance so perfectly stated, to sidney hard and all his asshat bigots, "suck it , bitches".

The conviction of Crystal Mangum was a travesty of justice... one which I hope to rectify in the near future.; November 24, 2013 at 11:11 AM
Anonymous said...: SIDNEY HARR:

"I will not admit to a fallacy. The stab wound was non-fatal. It was the intervening action of the esophageal intubation which was responsible for Daye's brain death and subsequent death. That is the fact."

You again confirm my opinion, that you are an untrained, inexperienced, questionably competent physician. Otherwise you would recognize the stab wound WAS fatal.; November 24, 2013 at 11:17 AM
Anonymous said...: SIDNEY HARR:

"The conviction of Crystal Mangum was a travesty of justice... one which I hope to rectify in the near future."

Right, SIDNEY.

Just like, the State has no case, mark my words, the charges will be dropped, Crystal will not go to trial, not if I have anything to say about it. Plus, send me your address so I can send you a crying towel when the charges are dropped.

I expect next week you will be getting a lot of towels for your own use.; November 24, 2013 at 11:25 AM
Anonymous said...: KENHYDERAL:

Read this if you dare:

http://pjmedia.com/rogerkimball/2013/11/24/aftermath-of-the-duke-lacrosse-rape-case/

It is a description of how the media pilloried not Crystal in the immediate aftermath of the phoney rape case but the Lacrosse players.; November 24, 2013 at 11:31 AM
A Lawyer said...: I find it interesting that Mangum's supporters are no longer trying to seriously support her claim of self defense, given all the evidence at trial that came out against that theory-- from the defensive woulds suffered by Mr. Daye to the extraordinary contradictions in Mangum's testimony to the character evidence of Daye's peaceable background. Instead, her supporters are now hanging their hats solely on the cause of death, an argument which is both barred by the caselaw, and which, even if it had legal merit (it doesn't) or factual merit (there was no evidence of any esophogeal intubation) would at most mean that she is not guilty of murder but "only" guilty of assault with a deadly weapon.

Nice heroine you picked for yourselves, folks.; November 24, 2013 at 11:33 AM
Break the Conspiracy said...: A Lawyer,

Your criticism is unfair. I believe Mangum's supporters are articulating a number of arguments to support an appeal.

1. Self defense. Despite the evidence that contradicted her claims and her wildly inconsistent testimony, the jury unreasonably dismissed as not credible a number of Mangum's statements despite the inability to prove that they could not possibly be true. Although a jury is the trier of fact, any conclusion that Mangum is not credible is unreasonable, despite the evidence that she lied in some of her statements.

2. Esophageal intubation. Although no evidence was introduced during the trial to support the allegation that Daye's brain death was caused by an esophageal intubation, we do not know what information not introduced into evidence would have supported this conclusion. In particular, although Roberts was directed by the Court to provide a written report, this report was not used at trial. Therefore, it has not been proven that the report did not support Sidney' s conclusion. Her verbal confirmation that she found no major errors with the autopsy has no merit and can be ignored. The failure of Meier to use evidence that might have existed proves he conspired against her and she did not have adequate counsel.

3. Failure to pursue jury nullification. Although medical malpractice in 2 above would not represent an intervening cause and eliminate Mangum's responsibility for Daye's death, this law is unfair. Mangum should not be responsible for the mistakes of others. Meier's failure to argue for jury nullification proves she did not have adequate counsel.

4. Medical murder. The failure to investigate Daye's death as a medical homicide makes it impossible to prove that a medical homicide could not possibly have occurred. Therefore Mangum cannot be guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. This is another unreasonable conclusion by the jury.

The case presented by Mangum's supporters remains as compelling as at any time during the past 2 1/2 years.

I hope this summary is helpful.; November 24, 2013 at 2:42 PM
A Lawyer said...: The case presented by Mangum's supporters remains as compelling as at any time during the past 2 1/2 years.

Which is to say, not very compelling at all.

I hope this summary is helpful.

Yes, it's a wonderful piece of deadpan humor but, as usual, Dr. Harr won't get the joke.; November 24, 2013 at 3:41 PM
The Rectumfinder said...: Then we'll have a bonfire with the sign in the middle of the circle

...and throw Crystal Mangum right on top!

I'll bring marshmallows.; November 24, 2013 at 3:44 PM
kenhyderal said...: @ Break 1 Self defence: Obvious; Daye in a jealous rage attacked her. 2 Esophageal intubation: The most likely explanation for the cerebral anoxia that rendered Daye brain dead. 3 Jury nullification": Yes, if the treatment of Daye's alcohol withdrawal symptoms led to emesis and aspiration and was unrelated to his surgery. 4 Medical murder: No but an unethical cover-up of a culpable treatment error; November 24, 2013 at 4:13 PM
kenhyderal said...: A Lawyer said: " find it interesting that Mangum's supporters are no longer trying to seriously support her claim of self defense, given all the evidence at trial that came out against that theory-- from the defensive woulds suffered by Mr. Daye to the extraordinary contradictions in Mangum's testimony to the character evidence of Daye's peaceable background. Instead, her supporters are now hanging their hats solely on the cause of death, an argument which is both barred by the caselaw, and which, even if it had legal merit (it doesn't) or factual merit (there was no evidence of any esophogeal intubation) would at most mean that she is not guilty of murder but "only" guilty of assault with a deadly weapon. Nice heroine you picked for yourselves, folks"....Have you come up with any motive for Crystal attacking Daye. That Peaceful Saint Reggie was in a jealous rage is not in dispute. That he kicked in a door is not in dispute. That he was grossly intoxicated is not in dispute. I say not guilty of wounding with intent because of self defence and certainly not guilty of murder because a medical error in the treatment of Daye's alcohol withdrawal was what killed him. Crystal's struggles in life have been heroic; November 24, 2013 at 4:29 PM
Anonymous said...: KENHYDERAL:

"@ Break 1 Self defence: Obvious; Daye in a jealous rage attacked her."

No vidence of that

"2 Esophageal intubation: The most likely explanation for the cerebral anoxia that rendered Daye brain dead."

Absolutely no evidence of that. Only an opinion by an untrained, inexperienced, questionably competent physician.

"3 Jury nullification": Yes, if the treatment of Daye's alcohol withdrawal symptoms led to emesis and aspiration and was unrelated to his surgery."

Daye's emesis and subsequent brain death would not have happened if Crystal had not stabbed him. It has not been demonstrated that he was in DTs. KENHYDERAL's opinion is the opinion of a layman who understands little, if anything of the emergency treatment of a stab wound injuring multiple organs.

"4 Medical murder: No but an unethical cover-up of a culpable treatment error"

There was no culpable medical error. Again that is based on the opinion of an untrained, inexperienced,questionably competent physician.; November 24, 2013 at 4:40 PM
Anonymous said...: Kenny asks: "Have you come up with any motive for Crystal attacking Daye?"

How about the motive advanced in the trial? It was alleged that Daye told Crystal to move out.; November 24, 2013 at 4:42 PM
Anonymous said...: KENHYDERAL:

"Have you come up with any motive for Crystal attacking Daye. That Peaceful Saint Reggie was in a jealous rage is not in dispute."

Yes it is, mainly because of Crystal's rather ineffective, prevaricating testimony at trial.

"That he kicked in a door is not in dispute. That he was grossly intoxicated is not in dispute."

Yes it is in dispute that he was intoxicate. Someone with a normal liver and a blood alcohol of almost 300 would have been comatose. A man who could tolerate that level would not have had a normal liver on autopsy.

"I say not guilty of wounding with intent because of self defence and certainly not guilty of murder"

There is no evidence that Crystal acted in self defense. There was no evidence at all she was beaten. In contrast, there WAS physical evidence that Crystal attacked Reginald Daye.

"because a medical error in the treatment of Daye's alcohol withdrawal was what killed him."

There is no evidence of Medical error. I say again, the opinion of an untrained, inexperienced, questionably competent physician is not evidence of medical error.

"Crystal's struggles in life have been heroic"

Yeah, struggles to avoid accountability for a rather sordid criminal past, stealing a cab, driving recklessly while drunk, attempting to run down a law officer, falsely accusing men of rape, assaulting men, arson, killing Reginald Daye.; November 24, 2013 at 4:51 PM
KHF Supporter said...: Kenny,

Your reply is a disingenuous, but you knew that.

@ Break 1 Self defence: Obvious; Daye in a jealous rage attacked her. 2 Esophageal intubation: The most likely explanation for the cerebral anoxia that rendered Daye brain dead. 3 Jury nullification": Yes, if the treatment of Daye's alcohol withdrawal symptoms led to emesis and aspiration and was unrelated to his surgery. 4 Medical murder: No but an unethical cover-up of a culpable treatment error

1. Self defense. Yes, it is easier to claim self defense if you can simply ignore Crystal's "errors."

Crystal claimed she stabbed Daye in the bedroom, but the blood was found in the hallway, where Daye claimed he was stabbed.

Crystal claimed she hid behind the mattress next to the bed to avoid the knives Daye threw at her. But the mattress miraculously was on the bed, not on the floor.

The jury must have concluded Crystal lied and didn't believe her. Is that grounds for your appeal?

2. Esophageal intubation. Show me evidence to counter Nichols. I want an expert opinion, not a friend of Crystal's expressing an opinion on the internet.

I do not accept Dr. Harr as an expert and do not believe him.

My disbelief is due not to his lack of credentials, but rather because he has been proven to be either a liar or a fool.

Harr's repeated statement that the failure to match DNA to the defendants in the lacrosse frame was not exculpatory, even though Crystal claimed that one of the attackers ejaculated in her mouth and she spit it out. Harr has no credibility.

Please provide your own expert to counter Nichols.

Unless Meier had evidence that he kept from the court, your unsupported opinion provides no grounds for an appeal.

3. Jury nullification. Good luck on an appeal that relies on the failure of a jury to nullify case law.

4. Medical murder. You have conceded someone at Duke did not deliberately murder Daye.; November 24, 2013 at 6:33 PM
Anonymous said...: I hope she gets gang raped in prison and dies of AIDS.That would be justice.; November 24, 2013 at 6:50 PM
A Lawyer said...: Anonymous at 6:50:
That's awful. I don't wish that on anyone. It's tragic that Mangum, by her bad choices, has landed herself in prison. I hope for her rehabilitation, not her injury.

I hope I am speaking for others in saying that, while I find Dr. Harr's positions on the issues in this case to be insupportable at best and disingenuous at worst, I harbor no ill will to him or Crystal Mangum.; November 24, 2013 at 8:24 PM
Anonymous said...: right ... well you're stupid if you think that was anything about Ms. Mangum being a hero and not about trying to make sure she got a fair trial in the frigged up duke/durham justice system which doesn't exist in fairness, equality, and professional ethics for anyone in all practicality.

So, therefore, you wished not only Dr. Harr and Ms. Mangum ill will by not supporting a fair and equal duke/durham justice system for all, you also wished ill will on all whom are negatively affected by this evil that is duke/durham.

plenty of tubes where those deadly one came from ya'll ... get in line ...; November 24, 2013 at 9:20 PM
Anonymous said...: Lighten up Frances. Do we really still have to continue to pretend that this is a real forum where real people are expressing their real feelings about a real controversy?; November 24, 2013 at 9:24 PM
Anonymous said...: no ... these are real trials with real people

that is a medical system that really does kill people

and this is a forum that does discuss these very real issues

why don't you go pretend somewhere else eh?; November 24, 2013 at 9:33 PM
kenhyderal said...: KHF Supporter said: "Your reply is a disingenuous, but you knew that"........................ There is absolutely no duplicity in my posts. The exact square meter where the stabbing happened is immaterial. What is material is that she was being assaulted by a man in a jealous rage. Crystal was not standing erect using the mattress as a shield. She was on the floor and lifted an end of the mattress up to protect her face. It fell back into place when she was forced let go. The esophageal intubation is being covered up by Duke Hospital to avoid another multi-million dollar litigation. Putting the participants and observers of his treatment under oath is one was to get the truth. What is your alternate functional explanation for his anoxia. The Welch ruling is not all encompassing. Medical error in the treatment of a complication of the stab wound would be covered but treatment for withdrawal from alcohol, as was his presumptive diagnosis, is not antecedent to the wound but rather to his presumed alcoholism; November 24, 2013 at 9:39 PM
guiowen said...: Kenhyderal,
Please stop whining.; November 24, 2013 at 10:41 PM
Anonymous said...: It's sickening to read those medical reports in relation to the autopsy reports and know from them that the professional duplicity and withholding of evidence and other harmful professional actions in this case is seriously just that and right there in everyone's faces ... and they actually expect people to believe them and not have a problem with what they have done and are presently doing with their coverups and so whats. Why is this?

Why can you just sit here and 'watch' this all happen knowing their just barely holding their breaths waiting to see if they pulled 'it' off (while trying not to laugh too loud). And that's who you are supposed to trust your lives and health with. yeah ... right.; November 25, 2013 at 3:13 AM
Anonymous said...: Anonymous November 25, 2013 at 3:13 AM:

"It's sickening to read those medical reports in relation to the autopsy reports and know from them that the professional duplicity and withholding of evidence and other harmful professional actions in this case is seriously just that and right there in everyone's faces ... and they actually expect people to believe them and not have a problem with what they have done and are presently doing with their coverups and so whats. Why is this?

Why can you just sit here and 'watch' this all happen knowing their just barely holding their breaths waiting to see if they pulled 'it' off (while trying not to laugh too loud). And that's who you are supposed to trust your lives and health with. yeah ... right."

More uncorroborated allegations from the fabricator.; November 25, 2013 at 3:39 AM
Anonymous said...: blah blah blah….whine whine whine. Mangum is a convicted murderer. Find something else to piss and moan about….; November 25, 2013 at 3:49 AM
Anonymous said...: KENHYDERAL:

"There is absolutely no duplicity in my posts."

You may think so. But there is no truth, just wishful thinking based on your blind devotion to Crystal.

"The exact square meter where the stabbing happened is immaterial. What is material is that she was being assaulted by a man in a jealous rage."

Except the evidence(which you have a penchant for ignoring) was that Crystal was assaulting Reginald Daye.

"Crystal was not standing erect using the mattress as a shield. She was on the floor and lifted an end of the mattress up to protect her face. It fell back into place when she was forced let go."

How could Crystal be defending herself while she was assaulting Reginald Daye, as was shown by the evidence you ignore?

"The esophageal intubation is being covered up by Duke Hospital to avoid another multi-million dollar litigation."

The only one claiming esophageal intubation is SIDNEY HARR, an untrained, inexperienced, questionably competent physiciian.

"Putting the participants and observers of his treatment under oath is one was to get the truth. What is your alternate functional explanation for his anoxia."

How about first putting SIDNEY on the stand to prove there was an esophageal intubation? Because he would be shown to be not capable of doing so. Your belief in an esophageal intubation is like your belief that Crystal was raped, nothing but guilt presumption.

"The Welch ruling is not all encompassing."

However, much to your obvious guilt presuming distress, it was relevant to the Reginald Daye murder. Walt has more credibility than either a guilt presuming racist or an untrained, inexperienced, questionably competent physician.

"Medical error in the treatment of a complication of the stab wound would be covered but treatment for withdrawal from alcohol, as was his presumptive diagnosis, is not antecedent to the wound but rather to his presumed alcoholism."

Except the presumptive diagnosis was an infection. I guess you did not read SIDNEY's post that Reginald Daye was being evaluated for an infection when he vomited and aspirated. There is no evidence he was alcoholic. Even if he were, it would not have relieved Crystal of criminal liability. Her infliction of the stab wound is what would have put him at increased risk of DTs in that scenario.; November 25, 2013 at 3:56 AM
KHF Supporter said...: Kenny,

Please stop throwing a Hissy fit. If you truly believe your dear friend, Crystal Mangum, was unjustly convicted of murder, then do something helpful.

Whining on an infrequently read blog will accomplish nothing. Hire a credible expert to support the allegation that there was an esophageal intubation. Harr is not credible. Your whining does nothing except to annoy others.

But of course you know that.; November 25, 2013 at 4:00 AM
Anonymous said...: KENHYDERAL:

Presuming guilt, for whatever reason, does not establish guilt. Why have you failed to learn that over many years?; November 25, 2013 at 5:50 AM
Nifong Supporter said...: Break the Conspiracy said...
A Lawyer,

Your criticism is unfair. I believe Mangum's supporters are articulating a number of arguments to support an appeal.

1. Self defense. Despite the evidence that contradicted her claims and her wildly inconsistent testimony, the jury unreasonably dismissed as not credible a number of Mangum's statements despite the inability to prove that they could not possibly be true. Although a jury is the trier of fact, any conclusion that Mangum is not credible is unreasonable, despite the evidence that she lied in some of her statements.

2. Esophageal intubation. Although no evidence was introduced during the trial to support the allegation that Daye's brain death was caused by an esophageal intubation, we do not know what information not introduced into evidence would have supported this conclusion. In particular, although Roberts was directed by the Court to provide a written report, this report was not used at trial. Therefore, it has not been proven that the report did not support Sidney' s conclusion. Her verbal confirmation that she found no major errors with the autopsy has no merit and can be ignored. The failure of Meier to use evidence that might have existed proves he conspired against her and she did not have adequate counsel.

3. Failure to pursue jury nullification. Although medical malpractice in 2 above would not represent an intervening cause and eliminate Mangum's responsibility for Daye's death, this law is unfair. Mangum should not be responsible for the mistakes of others. Meier's failure to argue for jury nullification proves she did not have adequate counsel.

4. Medical murder. The failure to investigate Daye's death as a medical homicide makes it impossible to prove that a medical homicide could not possibly have occurred. Therefore Mangum cannot be guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. This is another unreasonable conclusion by the jury.

The case presented by Mangum's supporters remains as compelling as at any time during the past 2 1/2 years.

I hope this summary is helpful.

Hey, Break.

Thanks for your enlightening summary. I believe that Mangum's attorney convinced her not to have Dr. Roberts' report introduced or to have her as a witness. There is no doubt in my mind that Meier was trying to win Crystal's case without attacking Duke University Hospital or going after the medical examiner. That is the same defense strategy that all her prior attorneys have taken. I have always tried to have her pursue problems with the autopsy report and cause of death... but she didn't listen.; November 25, 2013 at 7:47 AM
Anonymous said...: SINEY HARR:

"
Thanks for your enlightening summary. I believe that Mangum's attorney convinced her not to have Dr. Roberts' report introduced or to have her as a witness. There is no doubt in my mind that Meier was trying to win Crystal's case without attacking Duke University Hospital or going after the medical examiner. That is the same defense strategy that all her prior attorneys have taken. I have always tried to have her pursue problems with the autopsy report and cause of death... but she didn't listen."

This is BULLSHIT!!! the only individual who had a problem with the autopsy report is you. I say again, as a physician, you are untrained, inexperienced an questionably competent. Your opinions on the autopsy report are meaningless. So are your opinions on whether or not Meier should have called Dr. Roberts are as equally meaningless.; November 25, 2013 at 7:53 AM
Anonymous said...: SIDNEY HARR:

"Thanks for your enlightening summary. I believe that Mangum's attorney convinced her not to have Dr. Roberts' report introduced or to have her as a witness. There is no doubt in my mind that Meier was trying to win Crystal's case without attacking Duke University Hospital or going after the medical examiner. That is the same defense strategy that all her prior attorneys have taken. I have always tried to have her pursue problems with the autopsy report and cause of death... but she didn't listen.

The only person you ever tried to influence about Dr. Roberts' report was Dr. Roberts herself. You attempted to have her provide a fraudulent report, to say that Dr. Nichols' report was fraudulent. What you did was the equivalent of attempted subornation of perjury.

That is typical of how you abide by the provisions of law.; November 25, 2013 at 8:08 AM
Lance the Supreme Poster of Enlightenment said...: "Hey, Break.

Thanks for your enlightening summary...."

Un.Believe.Able.; November 25, 2013 at 8:10 AM
Anonymous said...: SIDNEY HARR

KENHYDERAL:

Payback, on the appropriately named Liestoppers had a poetically just comment this morning:

"Whatever she did was bad enough".

URL: http://s1.zetaboards.com/Liestoppers_meeting/topic/5295246/11/; November 25, 2013 at 8:14 AM
Anonymous said...: Crystal Mangum is a profoundly disturbed young woman with a history of erratic behavior and mental illness.

For all her "supporters", no one ever really helped this woman. Quite the opposite,in fact.

That is the tragedy here.; November 25, 2013 at 10:19 AM
Anonymous said...: NoOne in this state gets any help. It is a game duke and their pals like to play with all the NC citizens. See how far, how much, and how many times they can mess 'em up before they're dead ... that's the game ... they make billions from it.; November 25, 2013 at 10:26 AM
Anonymous said...: Anonymous November 25, 2013 at 10:26 AM:

"NoOne in this state gets any help. It is a game duke and their pals like to play with all the NC citizens. See how far, how much, and how many times they can mess 'em up before they're dead ... that's the game ... they make billions from it."

More uncorroborated allegations from the fabricator.; November 25, 2013 at 11:08 AM
Anonymous said...: When you get old and gray (or any age) if you live in durham - and you die from an illness - or just have an illness - who provides the medical services in durham?

Who directs and controls and manipulates public government affairs and health/profit system legislation in NC that has a direct affect on the health of all in NC?

yes, evil duke troll, duke - bingo

Any way, they do it on purpose for the money and apparently for spite and revenge. Gotta keep the people sick and depended on them to make money with their meds and services - and keep their loyal flock of guinia pigs happy to keep up a steady supply of them - don't you know.; November 25, 2013 at 12:49 PM
Anonymous said...: Anonymous November 25, 2013 at 12:49 PM:

"When you get old and gray (or any age) if you live in durham - and you die from an illness - or just have an illness - who provides the medical services in durham?

Who directs and controls and manipulates public government affairs and health/profit system legislation in NC that has a direct affect on the health of all in NC?

yes, evil duke troll, duke - bingo

Any way, they do it on purpose for the money and apparently for spite and revenge. Gotta keep the people sick and depended on them to make money with their meds and services - and keep their loyal flock of guinia pigs happy to keep up a steady supply of them - don't you know."

More uncorroborated allegations fro the fabricator, followe by more unimaginative and impotent name calling.; November 25, 2013 at 1:00 PM
Anonymous said...: God help the people of Maine. Tara (Levicy) Thomas is no a Family Nurse Practitioner in Maine. Her bio states she has been a nurse in Maine for "8" years...I don't think so uynless she was in the same time warp as Crystal.; November 25, 2013 at 1:15 PM
guiowen said...: Anonymous at 1:00 p.m.,
Why do you feed the troll?; November 25, 2013 at 4:05 PM
Anonymous said...: In many patients lives in NC the story could be told of Duke having a life threatening effect on them. This is done directly through their health services and the politics that directs their health services, and indirectly, (or directly), through the same to them and everyone around them.

This could be said for Ms. Mangum and Mr. Daye and their families as well of course, since they are NC citizens.

In Mr. Daye's case however, Duke got their hands on him and wouldn't let go until he was completely dead. It is not a unique story to NC however. Shame.

Is there anyway for Ms. Mangum to have NO impact or influence placed upon her by Duke while in prison, other than all they have done, (or not done), to put her there to begin with?; November 26, 2013 at 2:02 AM
Anonymous said...: Anonymous November 26, 2013 at 2:02 AM

"In many patients lives in NC the story could be told of Duke having a life threatening effect on them. This is done directly through their health services and the politics that directs their health services, and indirectly, (or directly), through the same to them and everyone around them.

This could be said for Ms. Mangum and Mr. Daye and their families as well of course, since they are NC citizens.

In Mr. Daye's case however, Duke got their hands on him and wouldn't let go until he was completely dead. It is not a unique story to NC however. Shame.

Is there anyway for Ms. Mangum to have NO impact or influence placed upon her by Duke while in prison, other than all they have done, (or not done), to put her there to begin with?"

More uncorroborated allegations from the fabricator.; November 26, 2013 at 4:19 AM
Anonymous said...: Anonymous at 4:19 a.m.,
Why do you feed the troll?; November 26, 2013 at 5:07 AM
Nifong Supporter said...: Anonymous said...
SINEY HARR:

"
Thanks for your enlightening summary. I believe that Mangum's attorney convinced her not to have Dr. Roberts' report introduced or to have her as a witness. There is no doubt in my mind that Meier was trying to win Crystal's case without attacking Duke University Hospital or going after the medical examiner. That is the same defense strategy that all her prior attorneys have taken. I have always tried to have her pursue problems with the autopsy report and cause of death... but she didn't listen."

This is BULLSHIT!!! the only individual who had a problem with the autopsy report is you. I say again, as a physician, you are untrained, inexperienced an questionably competent. Your opinions on the autopsy report are meaningless. So are your opinions on whether or not Meier should have called Dr. Roberts are as equally meaningless.

All along I said that discrepancies existed between Nichols' autopsy report and the medical records. Dr. Nichols even admitted that but said that he was unable to explain it. The explanation is easy and simple... he lied.

Daye's brain death was due to an esophageal intubation... not any infection or any other complication. Daye's death was certainly not due to the stab wound.; November 26, 2013 at 6:50 AM

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Monday, November 18, 2013

Part One: Judge Ridgeway's rush to convict

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