tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3773293499407151140.post4867136134984414896..comments2024-03-26T13:03:49.523-07:00Comments on justice4nifong: Why Tracey Cline should be reinstated as Durham D.A.Nifong Supporterhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00893537130835998222noreply@blogger.comBlogger231125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3773293499407151140.post-47249734552701949582012-02-29T18:45:43.290-08:002012-02-29T18:45:43.290-08:00Ken-ninny-hyderal, consider this:
If the defense ...Ken-ninny-hyderal, consider this:<br /><br />If the defense can not get the suits dismissed, they might settle with the plaintiffs rather than let the case go to discovery. That is what happens when the defense knows it can not prevail in court.<br /><br />What would you do if the case were settled?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3773293499407151140.post-7809701182736508692012-02-29T18:42:46.536-08:002012-02-29T18:42:46.536-08:00Ken-ninny-hyderal, consider this:
If the case wer...Ken-ninny-hyderal, consider this:<br /><br />If the case were to go to discovery, then defense attorneys could depose all the Lacrosse team. They could ask each member how many Lacrosse team members attended the party. I have read that 30 people were present. If it is revealed that only 23 Lacrosse players were present, then you could establish there were more that two non Lacrosse player unknowns there. So why doesn't the defense try this?<br /><br />Of course, if it were revealed that 35 Lacrosse players were present, it would shoot down your hypothesis.<br /><br />Maybe the defense attorneys are trying to prevent something like that.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3773293499407151140.post-14889544433395078162012-02-29T18:11:04.338-08:002012-02-29T18:11:04.338-08:00Ken-ninny-hyderal: "That's a standard def...Ken-ninny-hyderal: "That's a standard defense strategy. If it does not succeed they will be more inclined to, again, look for evidence that a crime occured. Hopefully, this time, not such a woefully inadequate investigation."<br /><br />If the Defense is trying to get the case dismissed without going to trial, it is because they don't want any evidence to become part of the public record. <br /><br />Just for interest, how do you propose new evidence will come to light? Have Kilgo reveal what he knows about the case? Have Kilgo testify he knows someone who knows that unidentified males were at the party?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3773293499407151140.post-27877948169093385192012-02-29T16:25:11.619-08:002012-02-29T16:25:11.619-08:00Anonymous @11:33 said: "In case you have not ...Anonymous @11:33 said: "In case you have not been following the civil suits, the defendants are trying to get the suits dismissed before discovery takes place via a number of technicalities. Thatsuggests they can not defend the suits" That's a standard defense strategy. If it does not succeed they will be more inclined to, again, look for evidence that a crime occured. Hopefully, this time, not such a woefully inadequate investigation.kenhyderalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11840949337424645023noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3773293499407151140.post-45568649305726022272012-02-29T11:39:14.392-08:002012-02-29T11:39:14.392-08:00Ken-ninny-hyderal: "Since unidentified DNA, e...Ken-ninny-hyderal: "Since unidentified DNA, extracted from sperm, was found...".<br /><br />That finding does not establish that sperm were deposited on Ms. Mangum's person on the night of 13/14 March 2006, let alone that they were deposited via a rape. <br /><br />Remember, in a criminal case, it is the Prosecution's obligation that something happened. The prosecution's allegation of a crime does not impose any obligation on the defense to disprove the alleged crime.<br /><br />Which is why I ask, if you can not prove a crime happened, how does that obligate anyone to prove the crime did not happen?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3773293499407151140.post-41437171469879990392012-02-29T11:33:06.881-08:002012-02-29T11:33:06.881-08:00Ken-ninny-hyderal: "We'll see how the def...Ken-ninny-hyderal: "We'll see how the defense in the civil action goes. There may be some surprises."<br /><br />In case you have not been following the civil suits, the defendants are trying to get the suits dismissed before discovery takes place via a number of technicalities. Thatsuggests they can not defend the suits.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3773293499407151140.post-33025726840332061122012-02-29T11:29:21.435-08:002012-02-29T11:29:21.435-08:00Ken-ninny-hyderal: "Since unidentified DNA, e...Ken-ninny-hyderal: "Since unidentified DNA, extracted from sperm, was found, to completely eliminate that a rape occured that night you would have to disprove Crystal's affadavit, regarding her sexual history, by identifying these individuals and prove they were not present at the party."<br /><br />What you seem to be asserting that one must prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the alleged rape did not occur. I assert you can not prove that the alleged rape did occur, even by a lesser standard of a preponderance of the evidence. You offer NO evidence, only speculation and hearsay.<br /><br />If you can not prove Crystal was raped, why should I or anyone else have to prove shewas not?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3773293499407151140.post-32684997480695329432012-02-29T10:45:45.225-08:002012-02-29T10:45:45.225-08:00Ken-ninny-hyderal: "Condom use, failure to ej...Ken-ninny-hyderal: "Condom use, failure to ejaculate, bowel evacuation or leakage, faulty swabbing, etc. would all be possible factors".<br /><br />Crystal said in her statement that her assailants did not use condoms and did ejaculate on her. What evidence is there that bowel evacuation or leakage might have occurred?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3773293499407151140.post-26298940532418004342012-02-29T10:42:48.673-08:002012-02-29T10:42:48.673-08:00Ken-ninny-hyderal: ""That would mean tha...Ken-ninny-hyderal: ""That would mean that the probability that a sexual assault did not happen is 98%"....... No, that would indicate that no semen was detected on the rape kit specimens. "<br /><br />In the face of Crystal's llegation that semen WAS deposited on her person, what does it mean that "no semen was detected on the rape kit specimens."? It would mean that the crime Crystal alleged never happened.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3773293499407151140.post-39681823182374116342012-02-29T09:54:51.433-08:002012-02-29T09:54:51.433-08:00Anonymous @ 5:51 said : "That would mean that...Anonymous @ 5:51 said : "That would mean that the probability that a sexual assault did not happen is 98%"....... No, that would indicate that no semen was detected on the rape kit specimens. Condom use, failure to ejaculate, bowel evacuation or leakage, faulty swabbing, etc. would all be possible factors for the failure of the detection of semen. Since unidentified DNA, extracted from sperm, was found, to completely eliminate that a rape occured that night you would have to disprove Crystal's affadavit, regarding her sexual history, by identifying these individuals and prove they were not present at the party. Of course, the burden of that proof is on the prosecution and they chose to withdraw. We'll see how the defense in the civil action goes. There may be some surprises.kenhyderalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11840949337424645023noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3773293499407151140.post-63308463674640664502012-02-29T05:51:05.149-08:002012-02-29T05:51:05.149-08:00Ken-ninny-hyderal, let's put it this way.
The...Ken-ninny-hyderal, let's put it this way.<br /><br />The point in contention is, asexual assault on Crystal Mangum did not happen on the night of 13/14 March 2006.<br /><br />You contend that there is reasonable doubt as to that because the lab tests cannot rule out a sexual assault with 100% certainty.<br /><br />Referring to the items I have cited, and this is repetition, the probability that the tests failed to pick up evidence of a sexual assault is on the order of 2%. <br /><br />That would mean that the probability that a sexual assault did not happen is 98%.<br /><br />So explain why that is not overwhelming evidence that nothing happened?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3773293499407151140.post-75341736721730393102012-02-29T03:28:09.300-08:002012-02-29T03:28:09.300-08:00Ken-ninny-hyderal: "That[additional DNA testi...Ken-ninny-hyderal: "That[additional DNA testing] would require testing all who were there present and not just the registered team members."<br /><br />There is no evidence, other than your unreliable hearsay evidence from Kilgo, that there were unidentified males at the party.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3773293499407151140.post-20571927608724867262012-02-29T03:25:28.617-08:002012-02-29T03:25:28.617-08:00Ken-ninny-hyderal: "What I would have liked t...Ken-ninny-hyderal: "What I would have liked to have seen, was for the investigators to try and determine the source of the contemorary DNA, extraced from sperm cells, that was found."<br /><br />Why? There was no evidence a rape had happened on the night of 13/14 March 2006.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3773293499407151140.post-61630954326433526262012-02-28T09:54:27.250-08:002012-02-28T09:54:27.250-08:00I conceed, reasonable doubt exists from the forens...I conceed, reasonable doubt exists from the forensic evidence. What I would have liked to have seen, was for the investigators to try and determine the source of the contemorary DNA, extraced from sperm cells, that was found. That would require testing all who were there present and not just the registered team members. Of course, for the sake of elimination and to confirm Crystal's provided sexual history, clients of the escort service she worked for should also be identified and eliminated.kenhyderalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11840949337424645023noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3773293499407151140.post-19329128990820113022012-02-28T09:16:46.898-08:002012-02-28T09:16:46.898-08:00Ken-ninny-hyderal' from The Medical
Investigat...Ken-ninny-hyderal' from The Medical<br />Investigation of Alleged Rape by IRVING ROOT, MD, WENDELL OGDEN, MD, and WAYNE SCOTT, MD<br />San Bernardino, California published in The Western Journal of Medicine, 120:329-333, Apr 1974.<br /><br />The information is old but still valid.<br /><br />"As in any medical examination, the conclusion should be the physician's clinical impression. Is there evidence that coitus has occurred? Are the physical and laboratory findings consistent with the history or is there a discrepancy? The physician cannot and should not state whether the patient has been raped. Rape is a legal, not a medical, definition."<br /><br />In other words, Tara Levicy's report of "injuries consistent with rape" was improper and would not have held up in court as evidence.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3773293499407151140.post-67460952291008643082012-02-28T08:53:33.338-08:002012-02-28T08:53:33.338-08:00Ken-ninny-hyderal: from http://books.google.com/bo...Ken-ninny-hyderal: from http://books.google.com/books?id=mpxTRdbspWEC&pg=PA90&lpg=PA90&dq=Roach+Vladutiu:+1993&source=bl&ots=if0XZAJXYa&sig=U4FaPRNxA4e-3v44n9Kmsxu4nQE&hl=en&sa=X&ei=4QRNT8yAN8OhtweB2PBD&ved=0CCwQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=Roach%20Vladutiu%3A%201993&f=false:<br /><br />"Another study comparing PAP (prostatic acid phosphatase) to PSA (prostatic specific antigen) found, in a sample of 212 women who had consenting sex within four days, that more positive results were obtained with PAP analysis. While both were positive 59% of the time, PAP was positive 84% of the time and PSA was positive 60% of the time. PAP was negative only 2% of the time when PSA was positive, and PSA was negative 25% of the time when PAP was positive".<br /><br />This is interesting. Apparently, PSA fails to confirm the presence of semen when Acid Phosphatase assay is positive. Could this be due tothe fact that AP is found in bodily fluids other than semen.<br /><br />On the other hand, this indicates that when PSA nnd AP are negative, the odds against semen being present are something like 49 to 1.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3773293499407151140.post-45820237453273668832012-02-28T08:34:43.509-08:002012-02-28T08:34:43.509-08:00Ke-ninny-hyderal, this from www.dnatestingcentre.c...Ke-ninny-hyderal, this from www.dnatestingcentre.com/InfidelityKit.htm#AP:<br /><br />"35% of all semen detections are PSA positive when the AP test is false negative. Three percent of all semen detections are PSA negative and AP false positive."<br /><br />Which does suggest that a PSA assay will reveal the presence of semen in a significant number of cases when the AP assay does not.<br /><br />In Crystal's case, however, both AP and PSA assays were negative. I call that proof beyond a reasonabledoubt that semen was not found on her rape kit.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3773293499407151140.post-48738471462595130132012-02-28T08:26:47.729-08:002012-02-28T08:26:47.729-08:00Ken-ninny-hyderal, this from http://www.semenonpan...Ken-ninny-hyderal, this from http://www.semenonpanties.com/laux.htm:<br /><br />"Swabs collected from sexual assault survivors are generally tested for the presence of acid phosphatase followed by tests for the presence of spermatozoa, and P30 IF NECESSARY(emphasis added).<br /><br />The question is, if acid phosphatase is negative, what is the chance more specific tests for semen will reveal semen.<br /><br />This information suggests that the likelihood is low.<br /><br />I know of only one incidence in which a negative acid phosphatase assay was followed by a test more specific for semen. That was the combination of the SBI testing and the DSI testing of Crystal Mangum's rape kit. DSI's more specific test did not establish the presence of semen.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3773293499407151140.post-5907558486844569192012-02-28T05:22:14.638-08:002012-02-28T05:22:14.638-08:00I said: "The finding of DNA from unknown male...I said: "The finding of DNA from unknown males on Crystal's rape kit does not establish that said DNA was deposited at the time of the alleged crime."<br /><br />I add: The finding of unknown male DNA on Crystal's rape kit in and of itself does not establish that a rape occurred.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3773293499407151140.post-11591983162628747612012-02-28T05:19:20.639-08:002012-02-28T05:19:20.639-08:00Ken-ninny-hyderal< to my last comment I add:
I...Ken-ninny-hyderal< to my last comment I add:<br /><br />If acid phosphatase was the only test done by SBI for semen, there was additional testing done by DSI, namely "seratic PSA presumptive tests for the presence of semen". As you have inadvertently pointed out, that test was negative.<br /><br />So what inculpatory evidence is provided by the combination of negative acid phosphatase assay and negative "seratic PSA presumptive tests for the presence of semen"? Absolutely none. <br /><br />If you allege Crystal was raped you should prove it. How does the failure to disprove it with 100% certainty prove it?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3773293499407151140.post-65595026369457060432012-02-28T05:13:13.250-08:002012-02-28T05:13:13.250-08:00Ken-ninny-hyderal: from http://www.enotes.com/seme...Ken-ninny-hyderal: from http://www.enotes.com/semen-sperm-reference/semen-sperm:<br /><br />"In a forensic examination, semen can be detected by the presence of the enzyme acid phosphatase. Because this enzyme is present elsewhere in the body, however, the test is not absolute proof of the presence of semen on clothing or in material recovered in a case of suspected sexual assault. But, detection of acid phosphatase is powerful circumstantial evidence, and indicates that further efforts should be made to investigate the possibility that semen is present."<br /><br />So what does the failure to detect semen mean? It means nothing inculpatory.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3773293499407151140.post-53288730218753243562012-02-28T05:09:30.311-08:002012-02-28T05:09:30.311-08:00Ken-ninny-hyderal: from http://www.iape.org/emanua...Ken-ninny-hyderal: from http://www.iape.org/emanual/biological_evidence.htm:<br /><br />DNA analysis cannot:<br /><br />Determine how old the sample is<br /><br />Determine how the sample was deposited <br /><br />Determine whether or not force was used in a suspected rape from the analysis of semen evidence<br /><br />The finding of DNA from unknown males on Crystal's rape kit does not establish that said DNA was deposited at the time of the alleged crime.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3773293499407151140.post-65466728004285941712012-02-28T04:15:15.572-08:002012-02-28T04:15:15.572-08:00Ken-ninny-hyderal, I add this to my last comment:
...Ken-ninny-hyderal, I add this to my last comment:<br /><br /> When you establish a 1-3% probability tha Crystal was raped, you establih a 97-99/% probability she was not.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3773293499407151140.post-15545442727736009962012-02-28T03:08:16.238-08:002012-02-28T03:08:16.238-08:00Ken-ninny-hyderal,
Let's look at this again. ...Ken-ninny-hyderal,<br /><br />Let's look at this again. You say one can not demonstrate with 100% certainty that Crystal was not raped based on the forensic examination of the rape kit.<br /><br />Based on same examination, you can demonstrate only with a probability of 1-3% that Crystal was not raped.<br /><br />You seem to be saying a 1-3% probability that the crime did happen is enough to convict, that it is proof beyond a reasonable doubt that a crime did happen.<br /><br />It doesn't work that way.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3773293499407151140.post-46908091006119460262012-02-27T19:06:25.042-08:002012-02-27T19:06:25.042-08:00Ken-ninny-hyderal: "Anonymous @ 9:23 said: &q...Ken-ninny-hyderal: "Anonymous @ 9:23 said: "The NC SBI Crime lab uses the RSID test for semen"......... No they didn't. On April 7, 2006, DSI performed a seratic PSA presumptive tests for the presence of semen on the rape kit. That negative test could not eliminate the presence of semen on Crystal's person".<br /><br />Are you saying that the purpose of rape kit testing is to eliminate the presence of semen? It is not. It is to establish the presence of semen. I say again, failure to "eliminate the presence of semen" is medico-legally meaningless.<br /><br />Regarding "seratic PSA presumptive tests for the presence of semen", I have read the false negative rate is 2.9% What that means is that the chances that semen is present in the face of a negative test are less than three in 100. The chances that semen is absent are slightly more than 97 out of 100.<br /><br />That does not establish the presence of semen.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com