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Word count: 1,004Posting of this blink marks the 594th day of Crystal Mangum’s wrongful incarceration on bogus and trumped up charges of first degree murder and “Larceny of chose in action.” Throughout her lengthy incarceration, neither of the two attorneys representing her even made the simplest of efforts to dismiss the larceny charge. Had I been representing Mangum in this criminal case arising from the self-defense stabbing incident in the wee hours of Sunday, April 3, 2011, I would have filed a motion to dismiss the “Larceny of chose in action” charge on day one.
First, it is obvious that not only is the charge not supported, but that it was diabolically used in conjunction with the “felony-murder rule” solely for the purpose of validating the murder charge status to first degree. It was the intent of the malicious prosecutors to carry out this vendetta prosecution against Mangum as payback for her role in the Duke Lacrosse case… this is clear and without doubt.
Problems with the “Larceny of chose in action” charge against Mangum can be categorized as follows:
(1) elements of the charge were not met by Mangum’s actions;
(2) timeline of the charge related to the incident suggests that it was not made in good faith;
(3) indictment of the charge in conjunction with the murder charge two weeks following the incident strongly supports that it was made to bolster the first degree status of the murder charge;
(4) nothing in the prosecution discovery even states that Mangum stole cashier’s checks; and
(5) it is illogical for the charge to apply to cashier’s checks in which the payee and remitter” are registered.
Beginning with the “Larceny of chose in action” charge, two elements must be met. First, in this case, the cashier’s checks must be stolen, taken and carried away, or taken by robbery. This did not occur, as Reginald Daye in an interview with Sgt. Marianne Bond on the first postoperative day said that “he gave her the checks to hold on to.” In fact, his intention was for her not only to hold onto them, but to turn them over to the apartment manager on Monday, April 4, 2011, during office hours… a time during which he would be at work as a house painter. Daye correctly knew that she even had deposited them in her purse for safekeeping… as was recorded by Sgt. Bond in this same police report.
The second element of this little known/rarely used law is that it is not merely enough to be in unlawful possession of the cashier’s checks, but that she be required to use them to for the payment of money or the delivery of specific articles that are the property of another person or corporation. This never occurred… this was never attempted… and the prosecution knows this to be a fact. In fact, Mangum never forged, altered, or manipulated the cashier’s checks that were in her possession for days.
If Durham prosecutors made the “Larceny of chose in action” charge in good faith, it would have been brought sometime within the proximity of the incident. Prosecution maintains Mangum took or stole the cashier’s checks on April 3, 2011, but made no such larceny charge until more than two weeks later, concomitantly with the murder charge. The timeline of the simultaneous indictment of the “Larceny of chose in action” charge along with the murder charge furthermore bolsters the premise that its sole purpose was to use it to justify elevating the murder to first degree.
In the November 16, 2012 issue of The Herald-Sun, in an article titled, “Confusion reigns at Mangum court appearance,” for the first time in recorded history, it states in writing that Mangum was charged with “.. stealing two checks from him (Daye).” However, no where in the prosecution discovery in any of the police reports and interviews does it state that Mangum specifically stole “checks,” “cashier’s checks,” or “money orders.” The only references to theft in the prosecution discovery have to do with the theft or unlawful taking of “money” or “rent money.” And, the taking of money or cash is a disqualifier when it comes to the “Larceny of chose in action” charge.
Finally, the “Larceny of chose in action” charge can be assumed by a reasonable person to apply to a blank check or blank cashier’s check, and not one wherein the payee and remitter are denoted… as in the case against Mangum with the apartment listed as payee and Daye as remitter. If unlawfully taken or stolen, a blank check has the potential of being easily and illegally converted to cash for the criminal benefit of the holder who unlawfully obtained it. It is this situation in which the “Larceny of chose in action” Class H felony is applicable. However, if a cashier’s check is filled out with payee and remitter named, its theft or physical loss is of no consequence as the remitter still retains the ability to redeem its value even without the check in his possession. Likewise, it is unreasonable for anyone to steal a check that has been filled out as to payee and remitter since that check’s value can only be converted by the payee or remitter, and not by the thief.
The only reason that Prosecutors had the nerve to bring this ridiculous charge against Mangum to satisfy the murder charge’s first degree standing, was because they were well aware that it would not be challenged by Mangum’s defense attorneys. And it wasn’t. Over more than a year and a half, neither of Mangum’s defense lawyers bothered to file a motion to dismiss this merit-less charge… and that is ineffective legal representation at its best.
In the criminal case against Crystal Mangum, which is nothing more than a house of cards built on a foundation of quicksand, the “Larceny of chose in action” charge will undoubtedly be the first underpinning of this criminal travesty to go.
LINK: http://www.justice4nifong.com/legal/cgm/direc/direcMasC.htm
362 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 362 of 362Anonymous said: "The troll is crawling out from under his bridge again. Please do not feed the troll"......................... When you resort to ad hominem you lose the argument.
KENHYDERAL:
"Anonymous @ 5:05 said: "You believe an assault happened in spite of overwhelming evidence that no assault happened, which is evidence of your bias against those who were accused(which I believe is due to a racist attitude on your part".............Incorrect; the race of the perpetrators is totally inconsequential to me. Your belief about me, like your belief about Crystal and so many of those who support her is completely wrong. You are a victim of the propaganda campaign to disredit Crystal and any who dare to stand by her."
Incorrect. There was no propaganda campaign to discredit Crystal. Those who stand by her discredit themselves by insisting in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary that she was raped.
KENHYDERAL:
"Anonymous said: "The troll is crawling out from under his bridge again. Please do not feed the troll"......................... When you resort to ad hominem you lose the argument."
What argument are you making by insisting in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary that Crystal was raped? That is an attempt to frame innocent men, nothing more.
KENHYDERAL:
How about explaining specifically how the DPD botched the investigation of Crystal's rape allegations.
KENHYDERAL:
Speaking of propaganda campaigns designed to discredit, we have the glaring example of DA NIFONG's series of inflammatory guilt presuming statements about the Duke Lacrosse team. This series of statements began on March 27, 2006 with DA NIFONG's statement that a crime had happened, that members of the Lacrosse team were the perpetrators, and that the crime was racially motivated. That propaganda campaign would have been unethical for even a prosecutor in Canada.
At the time he made the statement, DA NIFONG had no facts upon which to base his accusations. Do you think that facilitated the police investigation?
KENHYDERAL:
Crystal's book, which you seem to regard as authoritative, is a propaganda campaign to discredit those she falsely accused of raping her.
oooooo ad hominy....??Kenny, perhaps you meant to say it that way....since you are indeed, full of beans and corn.
I find it comical when Harr starts trying to be sarcastic about KC Johnson. His attempts are about as interesting and witty as yesterdays' oatmeal....boring, tasteless and good for the trash.
Harr says the lawyer(S) who have worked with Mangum have done nothing and are in cahoots with the "jihad". 1. Harr has no clue what the lawyers have or have not done. He is NOT privy to the conduct of their case management. 2. The lawyer(S) owe him nothing, do not report to him, are not concerned with what he thinks and could care less if he condemns them. 3. He gets his news from Mangum, who we ALL know is just a sterling truth-teller. 4. He distorts what he hears and reads, always to fit his own little racist fantasies. 5. He knows NOTHING about the law and even less about criminal defense. 6. He has done nothing, not ONE thing constructive to help Mangum. He whines, bitches, moans and wails about poor Mangum, the professional victim-in-residence.
The last thing Mangum needs is Mangum....god help her. What is most needs is competent counsel...completely, totally, utterly divorced from Harr and his bigot band. BUT, when she makes an ass of herself in court, or worse....she cannot use stupid counsel as an appeal basis. I look forward to the Daye family's "day" in court and to justice.....finally.....being done.
KENHYDERAL:
So far as propaganda, J4N isSIDNEY's propaganda campaign to discredit the innocent men whom Crystal falsely accused, their families, their attorneys, and the people who know they are innocent. You, who can't recognize that fact, turn and accuse the innocent men, their families, their supporters and their of conducting a propaganda campaign to discredit Crystal.
Talk about projection.
Now go ahead and call me "amature".
KENHYDERAL:
Hee s something else from Quasimodo(Kilgo actually complimented me once by calling me "another Quasimodo") on the appropriately named liestoppers:
"“And once again, we see no admission or regret that any Blacks (actually far, far, more throughout U.S. history) have ever been falsely imprisoned…”
What has that to do with the fact that these three Duke players were falsely accused? I am obviously no fan of Duke, on this or any other subject, but Duke never put anybody in prison, although it did all it could wrongfully to punish these players.
“Instead, you choose to weep and moan for some pampered athletes at Duke.”
It isn’t weeping and moaning. It’s a lawsuit, and it’s going to cost these arrogant, race-baiting Duke administrators a pretty penny, as it should.
As for “pampered athletes,” are you referring to the falsely accused players? That’s odd, because persons falsely accused used to be objects of sympathy rather than derision among those who cared about civil liberties. I guess times have changed.
“So please, no more about the friggin’ Duke lacrosse players whose mommies and daddies came to their rescues. Most of the people in the U.S. in the same exact position get zero help from anybody.”
Had I been their “daddy,” you better believe I would have come to their rescue, as would any normal parent, almost certainly including you. Are you waiting for me to apologize for that? If so, you’ll be waiting a long time."
It was posted years ago but it accurately describes your unreasonable guilt presuming racism.
Before I forget, I thank SIDNEY a forum for all justice loving individuals to publish the truth abut the Duke rape case, and I mean neither you, nor KENHYDERAL, nor any of your J4N gang(who haven't got the valor to speak out in favor of your cause)nor Kilgo, nor Injustice 58 when she was supporting your unholy cause.
"Hah! I don't think so. What did Duke University do to the three Duke Lacrosse defendant student athlete partygoers that made them settle for $20 million each? Face it, Duke University was trying to scam their insurance company into paying the $60 million... only it didn't work out. So they got stuck with the tab. Joseph Cheshire probably convinced Duke that the insurance company would make the payout"
For heaven's sake, Sid! How many times do I have to point out to you that the article you used to based your "20 million" figure on was wrong? Continuing to repeat something after it's been proven wrong is a lie Sid, something you've continually stated you do not do here on this blog.
So I am asking you now -- find a source to corroborate your "$20 million" claim (one that HASN'T been discredited) or stop making it.
SIDNEY HARR:
With regard t the settlements Duke paidto gag he Lacrosse playeers whom they threw under the bus, why don't you tell us what the Lacrosse players actually did to not deserve the sttlements. Let's see if you can do that without resorting to uncorroborated allegations.
The carpet bagger jihad is an uncorroborated allegation. So arev allegations of Jedi mind tricks.
Correction of an omission:
Before I forget, I thank SIDNEY for providing a forum for all justice loving individuals to publish the truth abut the Duke rape case, and I mean neither you, nor KENHYDERAL, nor any of your J4N gang(who haven't got the valor to speak out in favor of your cause)nor Kilgo, nor Injustice 58 when she was supporting your unholy cause.
Correction of typos:
SIDNEY HARR:
With regard to the settlements Duke paid to gag he Lacrosse players whom they threw under the bus, why don't you tell us what the Lacrosse players actually did to not deserve the sttlements. Let's see if you can do that without resorting to uncorroborated allegations.
The carpet bagger jihad is an uncorroborated allegation. So are allegations of Jedi mind tricks.
Anonymous @ 10:55 11-25-12 said: "How about explaining specifically how the DPD botched the investigation of Crystal's rape allegations"........ Principally by failing to identify the source of the DNA extracted from sperm that was found, unexplained by Crystal's consensual sexual history. This DNA was never submitted to the state or national data bases. There never was a complete and accurate identifaction of all who were present. Not all those who admitted they were there or who were identified ny photos were asked for a statement. And of course the photo line-up was improperly conducted, leading to two of those who were charged being not present.
KENHYDERAL:
"Principally by failing to identify the source of the DNA extracted from sperm that was found, unexplained by Crystal's consensual sexual history. This DNA was never submitted to the state or national data bases. There never was a complete and accurate identifaction of all who were present. Not all those who admitted they were there or who were identified ny photos were asked for a statement. And of course the photo line-up was improperly conducted, leading to two of those who were charged being not present."
What I expected you to answer. And it does not establish a botched police investigation as the reason why no one other than Lacrosse players were investigated.
How was the non Lax Male DNA found. First, forensic testing of the rape kit showed no evidence of semen, which IS evidence, which you HAVE NOT refuted, that no rape took place. DA NIFONG then submitted rape kit material for str testing of for the y chromosome, an extremely sensitive test to establish the presence of male DNA in situations in which conventional testing can not reveal it. That is strong circumstantial evidence that the DNA found on Crystal WAS NOT deposited on the night of 13/14 March 2006. That is what revealed DNA from multiple males(at least 9 or 10) was recovered from multiple areas of Crystal's person, none of which matched any of those named, via the NTO, as suspects in the case.
Why were the sources of that DNA never tracked. Because DA NIFONG and Brian Meehan conspired to keep that information unpublished and unknown to the Lacrosse defendants and their attorneys. The attorneys had no chance to insist that the sources of that DNA be identified. If they had that chance, they would have used because the information would have exonerated their clients.
Brian Meehan's explanation is that they did not want to drag any innocent men through the mud - meaning at least he did not regard the DNA as coming from any suspects. The real reason, I and a lot of others believe, is that DA NIFONG did not want it known that the only male DNA found on Crystal did not match the DNA of the men he wanted to prosecute for the alleged crime. DA NIFONG had that information when he sought indictments against three innocent members of the Duke Lacrosse team.
So now your have been given enlightenment and it has been elucidated for you, that the quality of the police investigation WAS NOT a factor in DA NIFONG's inability to prove that the crime did not happen. It was a factor in DA NIFONG's attempt to prosecute innocent men for the non crime.
So let's hear what you now have to say?
KENHYDERAL:
Clarification of a paragraph:
Why were the sources of that DNA never tracked. Because DA NIFONG and Brian Meehan conspired to keep that information unpublished and unknown to the Lacrosse defendants and their attorneys. The attorneys had no chance to insist that the sources of that DNA be identified. If they had that chance, they would have used it, because the information would have exonerated their clients.
KENDERAL:
Do you really believe that the attorneys for the Lacrosse Defendants would not have insisted that the authorities identify the men who deposited their DNA?
The only people who would have benefited would have been the Lacrosse players.
Which supports my contention that a "proper" police investigation would have established that no crime had happened.
KENHYDEAL:
What say you now?
KENHYDERAL:
"There never was a complete and accurate identifaction of all who were present".
You base that allegation on the finding of Male DNA on Crystal from men who were not at the party.
That does not in and of itself that the DNA was deposited on the night of 13/14 March 2006. That it does not disprove it is irrelevant. You are playing Crystal's advocate, which you are obligated to prove and you can not.
I say again, it was DA NIFONG who kept the authorities from identifying the men who had deposited their DNA on Crystal. DA NIFONG did not want it known that the only male DNA found on Crystal came from men who were not the me he intended to prosecute. Ergo, DA NIFONG caused the botched investigation.
KENHYDERAL:
Something for you to ponder:
What if the men who had deposited DNA were identified, and all were black men(it seems Crystal did not socialize with Caucasians), if none of them were prosecuted for raping Crystal, would that have left you so hot and bothered.
Since DA NIFONG wanted to keep those men unidentified, it is unlikely he would ever have charged them with rape let alone prosecute them.
KENHYDERAL:
Here is something else for you to ponder:
You have said Crystal identified her attackers as white, what would it have meant if the DNA found on Crystal had been identified as coming from lack men. For ne thing, it would have definitively excluded the possibility of a rape occurring on the night of 13/14 March 2006.
Could it be, DA NIFONG believed it was highly likely the male dna found on Crystal came exclusively from black men? Is that why he wanted to conceal that finding from the Lacrosse defendats and their attorneys?
I believe their attorneys would have believed the DNA most likely have come from black men. Had they known about the DNA found on Crystal they would have insisted the source be identified.
Can you imagine the consternation it would have caused among Crystal's supporters! Crystal claims she was raped by white men. All the DNA found on Crystal's person after the alleged crime came from black men.
Does this enlighten you asto why the Lacrosse defendants and their attorneys would have wanted to identify the males who left DNA on Crystal? Do you require further elucidation?
SIDNEY HARR:
Let's hear from you.
You say the Male DNA found o Crystal was not exculpatory. You have said it did not prove that it did not prove te defendants innocent(by which statement you do prove you believe they are guilty).
If the defense attorneys had been given the report in a timely matter(giving the raw data months after the tests were done does not satisfy the requirement of timely) do you think the defense attorneys would not have insisted that the rources of that DNA be identified. They would have done so, because DA NIFONG would have continued his wrongful prosecution.
I remind you, Crystal said white men had raped her? So if it could be shown that the only DNA found on Crystal in the wake of the alleged rape had been deposited by black men, what would that have done to DA NIFONG's wrongful prosecution.
Leon Brown, a black man, was accused of raping a white woman. The DNA recovered from the victim came from a white man. Then assistant DA Tracey Cline got herself laughed out of court on that one. So you can imagine what would have happenedto DA NIFONG had he complied with the law regarding exculpatory evidence.
SIDNEY HARR:
KENHYDERAL:
I've had a real productive nmorrning.
I bet KENNY did not anticipate the can if worms he would kick over by defending his preposterous claim about the botched police investigation.
Right on, KENHYDERAL!
Here is a little bit of TRUTH injected into the Harr bucket of lies.
Crystal Mangum said there were FIVE offenders who attacked her, and she said that one of them was a BLACK FEMALE. Her statement is in the police record which has NOT (tho Harr lies and says it is), which has NOT been sealed. Mangum changed her story over and over......initially saying 20 men raped her, then nine, then six, then FOUR. She identified FOUR men in the flawed lineup....yet Nifong went after only three. she said they DID NOT use condoms and then she said they DID use condoms.
Give me a break, folks. This woman is an absolute lizard....changing her colorings to match the situation so often, she sometimes looks plaid!
Anonymous @9:09 said: "Anonymous @ 10:55 11-25-12 said: "You have said Crystal identified her attackers as white, what would it have meant if the DNA found on Crystal had been identified as coming from lack men. For ne thing, it would have definitively excluded the possibility of a rape occurring on the night of 13/14 March 2006. Could it be, DA NIFONG believed it was highly likely the male dna found on Crystal came exclusively from black men? Is that why he wanted to conceal that finding from the Lacrosse defendats and their attorneys" ...... Yes it would have "if" the samples of DNA came from African Americans. That's a big if because the consensual sexual history Crystal gave did not include any non-African Americans. Can race be determined by the samples? Are they still available? If not why? You impugn DA Nifongs motives. In the opinion of Crystal he was seeking justice, for her, by hoping to prosecute the guilty.
KENHYDERAL:
"
Anonymous @9:09 said: "Anonymous @ 10:55 11-25-12 said: "You have said Crystal identified her attackers as white, what would it have meant if the DNA found on Crystal had been identified as coming from lack men. For ne thing, it would have definitively excluded the possibility of a rape occurring on the night of 13/14 March 2006. Could it be, DA NIFONG believed it was highly likely the male dna found on Crystal came exclusively from black men? Is that why he wanted to conceal that finding from the Lacrosse defendats and their attorneys" ...... Yes it would have "if" the samples of DNA came from African Americans. That's a big if because the consensual sexual history Crystal gave did not include any non-African Americans."
HUH???!!! Did you really mean to say that, that "the consensual sexual history Crystal gave DID NOT include any NON-African Americans(emphasis added)." That could only suggest that the DNA on Crystal came only from African Americans. If so, that would disprove that white men(non non African Americans if you will) could not have raped Crystal on the night of 13/14 March 2006.
"Can race be determined by the samples? Are they still available? If not why?"
I do not know if race can be determined by DNA. The race can be confirmed if the DNA donors can be identified and then examined. Why the samples might not be available, I have no idea. If they are available, none of Crystal's supporters have pushed to have the sources identified. Why? Probably because identifying the sources, they would further confirm Crystal was a false accuser.
"You impugn DA Nifongs motives."
I am not the only one to point out the real motive behind DA NIFONG's wrongful prosecution of innocent men.
"In the opinion of Crystal he was seeking justice, for her, by hoping to prosecute the guilty."
Since there was no rape(you have offered no evidence there was) there were no guilty. Ergo, Crystal was hoping DA NIFONG would wrongfully convict innocent men.
The question you are dodging is why DA NIFONG, if he was seeking to prosecute the guilty on behalf of Crystal, why DA NIFONG concealed the fact that the only DNA found on Crystal did not match any of the men DA NIFONG wanted to indict for the alleged crime. Why did DA NIFONG, I repeat DA NIFONG make no attempt to identify from whom the male DNA came.
To quote a line from Star Trek VI, with added emphasis, "DON'T WAIT FOR THE TRANSLATION! ANSWER ME NOW!(a paraphrase of words spoken by Adlai Stevenson to USSR Ambassador Zorin during the Cuban Missile Crisis).
KENHYDERAL:
I am sure you should find it easy to extract your feet from your over large mouth before you try to craft your next meaningless answer.
KENHYDERAL:
"Could it be, DA NIFONG believed it was highly likely the male dna found on Crystal came exclusively from black men? Is that why he wanted to conceal that finding from the Lacrosse defendats and their attorneys" ...... Yes it would have..."
You acknowledge that DA NIFONG concealed the finding of only non Lax Player DNA on Crystal's person following the alleged rape. Thereby you admit that DA NIFONG botched the investigation. DA NIFONG prevented the identification of the DNA donors, which you say was what botched the invetigation.
So here is something for you to ponder. How was DA NIFONG trying to convict the guilty when he deliberately did not seek out people who were more likely to be guilty than any member of the Lacrosse team?
I repeat from Star Trek VI, the paraphrase of Adlai Stevenson's words, ""DON'T WAIT FOR THE TRANSLATION! ANSWER ME NOW!"
KENHYDERAL:
I remind you of what you said, that Crystal's consensual sexual history did not include any non-African Americans. If you are saying that if DNA from some white man were found and the donor identified, how would that make the case for rape.
The findings from forensic exam and physical exam do not even come close to close to proving a rape happened(again, that they do not prove a rape did not happen, is irrelevant - your obligation is to prove a rape did happen).
The man could be brought in for questioning. How would you establish he had been at the party? If he were not, none of the Lacrosse players would have said that he was. Via that improper lineup to which you like to refer, Crystal showed she could not reliably identify who was or was not at the party.
Above all lingers the question, why did DA NiIFONG, I say again DA NIFING, not seek out suspects who were more likely than any member of the Lacrosse team to be guilty.
That is, more likely to be guilty if a rape had indeed happened, something you have not come close to close of proving.
Anonymous said...
SIDNEY HARR:
When are you going to contact the Daye family and suggest they file a malpractice suit against Duke. If they have a cause if action against Duke(which the innocent Lacrosse players did - Duke would not have settled if they had no cause of action which Duke did not want made public), a lot of contingency fee hungry lawyers would be lining up to represent them. If Duke settled with the Daye family rather than defend, that would be strong circumstantial evidence of wrongdoing n Duke's part(like Duke settling with the innocent Lacrosse players was strong circumstantial evidence of wrongdoing on Duke's part, even if you are too stupid to realize it).
I have no intention of contacting the Daye family. Why should I? Although Reginald Daye should have been charged with domestic violence, assault on a female, and false imprisonment, he wasn't... and with respect to him, that is now moot.
Whatever legal action Daye's family plans to take against Duke or anyone else is their business... not mine.
KENHYDERAL:
I apologize for not quoting you entirely.
"Yes it would have "if" the samples of DNA came from African Americans."
It still is an admission on your part, even if yiu did not intend it to be, that DA NIFONG botched the investigation by concealing the evidence. How would any one have found non non African American DNA on Crystal when DA NIFONG was preventing the evidence from being used to identify suspects?
SIDNEY HARR:
"
I have no intention of contacting the Daye family. Why should I? Although Reginald Daye should have been charged with domestic violence, assault on a female, and false imprisonment, he wasn't... and with respect to him, that is now moot."
There is no evidence that Reginald Daye was committing an assault on Crystal. Where are those pictures you claim document assault?
"Whatever legal action Daye's family plans to take against Duke or anyone else is their business... not mine."
In other words, you do not really believe there is a case for malpractice on the part of Duke, in spite of your ranting.
If it is none of your concern, ehy are you accusing DUMC Hospital of committing malpractice against Mr. Daye?
Reginald Daye was not murdered. He died from medical misadventure. The malpractice was covering this up.
Oh, I see....Kenny. Recently you ran your mouth, stating that you have never given a medical opinion. How interesting. NOW, you are telling us that Daye was "not murdered...he died from medical misadventure". Soooo, Dr Kenny. please provide to all us ignert hicks the specific credentials, professional experience, training, expertise and EVIDENCE you have to back that claim. We all just cannot wait to now learn that Dr. Kenny has a forensic pathology, trauma surgery, pulmonary background that we somehow missed! golly gee whillikers, cowboy, tell us all about your medical opinion as to the cause of Mr. Daye's death!!!!
Hilarious....once again....the troll sticks his ever growing foot in his mouth. Now we have the troll telling us , definitively, how Mr. Daye died. Wow, cool, Kenny......you and the good doctor, sidney, are going into practice together, are you? seeing as how you both are so widely experienced in forensics, pathology, trauma surgery, pulmonary medicine, healthcare law, medical mal practice.....what a team you two would make!!!
KENHYDERAL:
"Reginald Daye was not murdered. He died from medical misadventure. The malpractice was covering this up."
There is no evidence of medical misadventure, no evidence of malpractice. You are not qualified to comment on this. Neither is SIDNEY HARR. I doubt that after his internship SIDNEY never had hands on responsibility for managing a hospital inpatient.
Is Sidney reluctant to advise the Daye family to sue for malpractice is he fears to be called as an expert witness. When asked to establish his expertise, he would reveal he had none.
You don't need a medical degree to know the cause of death was the elective removal of Mr. Daye from life support because of irreversible brain death caused by cerebral anoxia. Supposedly drug treatment for his delerium tremens casued him to vomit and aspirate the vomitus, thus compromising his airway. This was most likely an avoidable consequence of his treatment for alcohol withdrawl. Avoidable in the sense that it was an elective treatment that caused the benzodiazepines to be given and assurance of a patent airway should have been achieved.
"You don't need a medical degree to know the cause of death was the elective removal of Mr. Daye from life support because of irreversible brain death caused by cerebral anoxia".
If Crystal hadn't stabbed him, Mr. Daye wouldn't be dead and Crystal wouldn't be charged for his murder. Please refer to Walt's numerous postings explaining why this is so.
Yes I'm aware of what the law says on this issue. One might argue, though, that treatment for alcohol withdrawl is independent of treatment for a stab wound. Treatment for alcoholism requires detoxifying the patient and managing the withdrawl symptoms. I guess one could argue that if Mr.Daye had not been hospitalized for his wound he could have maintained his usual alcohol intake and staved off any chance of withdrawl symptoms that might have occured.
"Yes I'm aware of what the law says on this issue."
Then we are in agreement. If Crystal hadn't stabbed him, Mr. Daye wouldn't be dead. The rest is simply conjecture on your part and has no legal bearing on this case. One has to wonder, why bother?
In other words, you read harr's notes and conclude he is both qualified to be making his observations and that his observations are correct. BOTH WRONG. I feel sorry for you, troll. You would think a full grown man with half a brain would be able to know the difference between SSSS and Shinola.
For example, there is NOT ONE WORD in the medical record to substantiate Harr's claim that Mr. Daye was an alcoholic. Not one. Yes, his labs showed he was heavily intoxicated. That finding, along, does not provide evidence of alcoholism. To the contrary, the record DOES show that his liver was normal. No evidence of chronic alcohol abuse. Another point, Kenny, the drugs he was given that harr claims were given solely to deal with delirium, can and routinely ARE used for a wide variety of medical circumstances, conditions and indications. If you were a qualified physician, one would think you would know this. It has been pointed out repeatedly on this silly web site.
It is amazing that you are so bleepin gullible. If harr tells you the world is flat and that Obama has a white twin brother locked in a cave in Iowa, I assume you will believe it. What an idiot!
KENHYDERAL:
"You don't need a medical degree to know the cause of death was the elective removal of Mr. Daye from life support because of irreversible brain death caused by cerebral anoxia. Supposedly drug treatment for his delerium tremens casued him to vomit and aspirate the vomitus, thus compromising his airway. This was most likely an avoidable consequence of his treatment for alcohol withdrawl. Avoidable in the sense that it was an elective treatment that caused the benzodiazepines to be given and assurance of a patent airway should have been achieved."
This statement is irrefutable evidence that you don't know what you are talking about.
Dr Anonymous, Retired Cardio Thoracic surgeon
Anonymous said: "If you were a qualified physician, one would think you would know this. It has been pointed out repeatedly on this silly web site............... I have no qualifications in medicine. I will only take advice here from Medical Doctors such as Dr.Harr, Dr. Orgel and even Dr. Anonymous the Cardio-thoracic surgeon. I will point out, however, that only 25% male of alcoholics have alcoholic cirrhosis and that if a person is able to function with a blood alcohol of 396mg/dl it's a sign of high alcohol tolerance found in chronic alcoholics. Without simply trying to discredit me I wouldn't mind hearing what Dr.Orgel and Dr. Anonymous have to say on Mr. Dayes post surgical aggitation the treatment of which led to cerebral anoxia
KENHYDERAL:
"Yes I'm aware of what the law says on this issue."
How can you be aware of what the law says about :this issue" when you have no comprehension of what "this issue" is? To have comprehension of "this issue", like me, you would have to have hands on experience managing "this issue".
"One might argue, though, that treatment for alcohol withdrawl is independent of treatment for a stab wound."
That is a fallacious argument. Alcohol withdrawl after trauma or major surgery can not be divorced from the trauma or surgery. I have been there and done that. You have not.
"Treatment for alcoholism requires detoxifying the patient and managing the withdrawl symptoms."
Which in the face of alcohol withdrawl associated with trauma, major surgery, any major illness, treatment is much more complicated, which you would realize if, like me, you had been there and done that.
"I guess one could argue that if Mr.Daye had not been hospitalized for his wound he could have maintained his usual alcohol intake and staved off any chance of withdrawl symptoms that might have occured."
Congratulations. You have said that alcohol withdrawl does not in and of itself, excuse Daye's assailant for responsibility for his death. So explain how you would prove self defense n the face of no evidence for self defense. This should be good, considerung your explanation of how the police botched the investigation of Crystal's rape allegation.
Doctor Anonymous, retired Cardio Thoracic surgeon
KENHYDERAL:
"Anonymous said: "If you were a qualified physician, one would think you would know this. It has been pointed out repeatedly on this silly web site............... I have no qualifications in medicine. I will only take advice here from Medical Doctors such as Dr.Harr, Dr. Orgel and even Dr. Anonymous the Cardio-thoracic surgeon. I will point out, however, that only 25% male of alcoholics have alcoholic cirrhosis and that if a person is able to function with a blood alcohol of 396mg/dl it's a sign of high alcohol tolerance found in chronic alcoholics. Without simply trying to discredit me I wouldn't mind hearing what Dr.Orgel and Dr. Anonymous have to say on Mr. Dayes post surgical aggitation the treatment of which led to cerebral anoxia."
I hope you have read what I have said about the treatment of alcohol withdrawl associated with major illness.
"I will point out, however, that only 25% male of alcoholics have alcoholic cirrhosis and that if a person is able to function with a blood alcohol of 396mg/dl it's a sign of high alcohol tolerance found in chronic alcoholics."
I have pointed out that alcoholic cirrhosis results from exposure of the liver to the toxic products of alcohol breakdown. Someone who could tolerate an alcohol level of 296(Mr. Daye's measured level was 296) would be exposing his liver around the clock to high levels of hepatotoxic substances. Ergo it is an almost 100% certainty that someone who could tolerate a level that high would be one of the 25% of alcoholics who have cirrhosis.
No one has to discredit yourself. You graphically show are incapable of comprehending the ramifications of medical conditions.
Why did Mr. Daye have a measured alcohol level of 296? An inaccurate lab test is a more likely possibility than the possibility that Crystal was raped by unidentified assailants on the night of 13/14 March 2006, or that members of the Lacrosse team would have covered for them.
Dr Anonymous
KENHYDERAL:
"I wouldn't mind hearing what Dr.Orgel and Dr. Anonymous have to say on Mr. Dayes post surgical aggitation the treatment of which led to cerebral anoxia".
The post surgical agitation and cerebral anoxia were complications of the stab wound inflicted on Mr. Daye by Crystal Mangum. They would not have happened if Crystal had not stabbed him.
Dr. Anonymous
KENHYDERAL:
Why did you misrepresent what botched the police investigation - or should I say who?
Right on kennyhyderal.
Right on Homer
KENHYDERAL:
Here is something from Liestoppers pertinent to the issue of who botched the police investigation:
"The April 4 procedure(the improper lineup at which Crystal identified Lacrosse players as her assailants)seems to be premature. The first meeting with DNASI was held less than a week later."
The significance: even before he got the news of the male DNA found on Crystal, DA NIFONG was working to convict members of the Lacrosse team. He had absolutely no intention to use any evidence which did not incriminate the defendants to look for other suspects.
Comments?
Homer says:
Right on Smithers
KENHYDERAL:
Put it this way. Crystal alleged a DNA depositing rape. The male DNA found on Crystal did not match any of the men who Nifong had indicted for the alleged crime.
So, if DA NIFONG was truly working for justice on behalf of Crystal why was he making no effort to identify the men who had deposited DNA on her person?
Right on Ken-Homer-hyder-smithers-al.
". I have never ever suggested the sexual assault on Crystal was racially motivated. I believe it was a case of mysogeny,classism and a sense of privilege and entitlement that these athletes displayed, both by their behaviour and by their actions. I believe, regardless of the race of the girls the agency sent, attempts would of been made to drug and sexually assault one of them."
Except, of course, no one was sexually assaulted by any of the Duke LAX players -- especially the 3 that ended up being accused.
If anyone has any doubt, simply read this.
Lance said: If anyone has any doubt, simply read this"......... The vast majority of these allegations are false and can be easily refuted, especially if all parties including Crystal are subpoenaed by the Defence to testify.
Lance said: "especially the 3 that ended up being accused"....... I concede this for Finnerty and Seligman
Dr.Anonymous said: "The post surgical agitation and cerebral anoxia were complications of the stab wound inflicted on Mr. Daye by Crystal Mangum".......... You are absolutely sure, then, that the aggitation was not caused by delerium tremens; as a differential diagnosis. You may have to eat your words, you know. I hope, though, that Dr.Orgel also weighs in.
KENHYHDERAL:
"Lance said: If anyone has any doubt, simply read this"......... The vast majority of these allegations are false and can be easily refuted, especially if all parties including Crystal are subpoenaed by the Defence to testify."
What parties? Kilgo is probably out of state by now afraid of being summoned to testify because he can not prove his Lacrosse player exists. If Crystal could behave true to form, she would run and hide rather than testify. When she publicized her propaganda, she did not want to answer questions about the assault. Many of the defendants are trying to get the suits dismissed rather than testify. Your belief that the charges can be easily refuted is a fantasy.
Explain why you misrepresented how the police investigation was botched.
KENHYDERAL:
"Lance said: "especially the 3 that ended up being accused"....... I concede this for Finnerty and Seligman"
I wonder whether or not you resent David Evans and his mother, the courageous and compassionate Mrs. Rae Evans because, unlike you and your mother, they do not have a dysfunctional relationship.
KENHYDERAL:
"Dr.Anonymous said: "The post surgical agitation and cerebral anoxia were complications of the stab wound inflicted on Mr. Daye by Crystal Mangum".......... You are absolutely sure, then, that the aggitation was not caused by delerium tremens; as a differential diagnosis. You may have to eat your words, you know. I hope, though, that Dr.Orgel also weighs in."
I can say authoritatively, and you can not, one can not regard DTs, if that is what happened, occurring during a serious medical illness, can not be divorced from the illness. I can also say authoritatively and you can not that post surgical agitation and disorientation is not invariably DTs.
As you have pointed out, Reginald Daye would never have had post surgical agitation had not the stab wound inflicted by Crystal necessitated surgery.
If anyone has to eat any words, you are not capable of serving them. You have definitively demonstrated that.
KENHYDERAL:
Considering Crystal's performance during the phoney Duke rape case, her history of mental instability(if she is subpoenaed by the defense in the ongoing lawsuits, her mental health record would likely be unsealed) none of the defendants would want to subpoena her. It would be like subpoenaing the Grand Wizard of the Ku Klux Klan as a character witness for someone like Byron de la Beckwith.
KENHYDERAL:
Speaking of eating one's words, you are now severely gagging and retching and barfing from eating your own words about why the police investigation of Crystal's false rape allegation was botched.
KENHYDERAL:
". I have never ever suggested the sexual assault on Crystal was racially motivated. I believe it was a case of mysogeny,classism and a sense of privilege and entitlement that these athletes displayed, both by their behaviour and by their actions. I believe, regardless of the race of the girls the agency sent, attempts would of been made to drug and sexually assault one of them."
You again show how much you resent men who are better off and more accomplished than you are. You would resent them even if they were African Americans.
Go ahead and, again, call me an "amature" psychiatrist.
KENHYDERAL:
Provide us with factual, objective evidence that a rape took place.
So, because the men were Duke lax players (which you automatically associate with women-hating, classist, privilege and entitlement), you LEAP to the conclusion they messed with Mangum. Wow, Virginia, the only exercise your mind must get is leaping to conclusions! (from an old quote, Kenny hissy, which you, being from Canada, would not understand....)
I suggest to you that MY theory of what happened that night is every bit as valid as yours. Mangum, having a history of the morals of a house cat, drunk, and using drugs....and turning tricks while being hauled around by her paid driver......saw an opportunity to cash in. She told her dance partner to slap her around, leave some marks, because she was "gonna make some money". I believe that she knew EXACTLY what she was doing.....faked it all.......made up a pack of lies.........got caught in her various lizard stories.......and, when the DNA EVIDENCE proved her stories wer lies......she, and her sorry-assed DA, had no place to hide. THAT, my friend, is exactly what happened. Yes, the stupid Duke jocks should never have hired strippers. It isn't against the law; it's just a crappy male nonsense thing to do. Yes, they were drinking underage. Perish the thought and call the NY TIMES!!! Holy crap, college boys drinking!! Who knew!!! It was stupid and wrong and against the law for the underage guys to be drinking. I agree. So a bunch of drunk college boys hired strippers..........one of whom saw her chance to rip off these guys. And it backfired. Since then Mangum, Durham's victim-in-residence, continues to screw up her life.....and continues to blame everybody else who happens to be white. You can rant all you want about poor Mangum. Tell you what.....the bill has come due....and this time, she has NOBODY to blame but herself. I don't see how she is going to get convicted of first degree murder.....but, I would bet the farm that she won't walk scot free on her trumped up charge that Daye beat her. Show me the infamous photos, Kenny.
You have your theory. I have mine. As my colorful grandma used to say, we all have three things in common....elbows, opinions, and asses.
It is interesting that you single out Dave Evans, since Crystal didn't even select him in one of the lineups (March, I think). The only possible evidence that linked Evans was the DNA taken from all surfaces of three false fingernails belonging to Mangum, which could not be conclusively matched to Evans.
Since the fingernails were retrieved from a trashcan in a house where Dave Evans lived, it certainly is possible that the DNA was his -- just as it is possible that the DNA was transferred from contact with his trash.
Mangum identified one player with "100% certainty" in both lineups -- Brad Ross (who wasn't even at the party). How do you explain that?
KENHYYDERAL:
Something more from Liestoppers:
This a quote from Volokh Conspiracy, a blog run by UCLA law professor Eugene Volokh. It concerns DA NIFONG's failure to have his office interview Crystal until 9 months into the case:
"I prosecuted a number of rape cases and other sex crimes. It would be inconceivable not to have met with an adult rape victim early on, usually with a victim assistance person present, to go through the details of what had happened. Then, you would meet a couple of times prior to trial to go through what she could expect at trial, on direct and cross. This goes double for a case where the victim has given obviously conflicting statements which are contained in the police reports . . ."
So how was DA NIFONG seeking justice for Crystal by not interviewing her in a timely manner? By failing to interview her, was he not botching the case?
In reference to not interviewing Mangum, it's kinda like putting your hands over your ears and yelling loudly.....so you canNOT hear what somebody is telling you. If you don't know something, then is plausible denial. If Mangum is not interviewed and Nifong does not hear her tell lies, over and over, then he can say, with a straight face, "I didn't know" she was lying. Does make one wonder, doesn't it!!!!
Mangum's stories about the number of attackers changed over time.....from an army of rapists, to nine, to six, to FIVE (which she identified in the flawed lineup) to four to three.....who Nifong settled on. Does make me wonder why he picked up those three?
Why did Nifong pursue the case when he KNEW the lab results cleared the boys? Damn good question, isn't it. Why did he not confront Mangum with one of her most obvious lies.....that being a claim, with complete certainty, that the men did NOT use condoms. (she told Levicy this four times). and, when she found out the lab results, she CHANGED her story and claimed they DID use condoms. Then, of course, she said she didn't know whether they penetrated her, so the rape charge got dropped. We went from complete certainty of vaginal and anal rape with no condoms, to with condoms, to not sure, to maybe, to, uh, uh, er, duh! And, yet, scumbag Nifong, knowing all of this, pressed on....loving the publicity and basking in the media spotlight. I will never forget the smiles on his face when he stood in front of cameras and talked about HIMSELF.
Lance the Intern said...
"You don't need a medical degree to know the cause of death was the elective removal of Mr. Daye from life support because of irreversible brain death caused by cerebral anoxia".
If Crystal hadn't stabbed him, Mr. Daye wouldn't be dead and Crystal wouldn't be charged for his murder. Please refer to Walt's numerous postings explaining why this is so.
Intern,
If Daye wouldn't have punched her in the head and face repeatedly, spit on her, pulled out her hair, broke down a locked bathroom door to get at her, gouged at her face with his fingernails, threw steak knives at her like target practice and choked her, she would not have stabbed him.
Let me know if further elucidation is required.
Anonymous said...
SIDNEY HARR:
"
I have no intention of contacting the Daye family. Why should I? Although Reginald Daye should have been charged with domestic violence, assault on a female, and false imprisonment, he wasn't... and with respect to him, that is now moot."
There is no evidence that Reginald Daye was committing an assault on Crystal. Where are those pictures you claim document assault?
"Whatever legal action Daye's family plans to take against Duke or anyone else is their business... not mine."
In other words, you do not really believe there is a case for malpractice on the part of Duke, in spite of your ranting.
If it is none of your concern, ehy are you accusing DUMC Hospital of committing malpractice against Mr. Daye?
By week's end I will display photos that show Crystal's face with swelling and puncture excoriations made by Daye's fingernails.
Regarding Mr. Daye and the Daye family, you need to get your scorecard in order. I am not advocating for Mr. Daye or his family. I am advocating for Crystal Mangum. The malpractice on the part of Duke University Hospital has bearing on Daye's death in regards to the murder charge against Mangum.
Daye family legal claims against Duke for malpractice in Daye's treatment and death are of no concern to me. That should be the concern of the malpractice attorney they retain.
"If Daye wouldn't have punched her in the head and face repeatedly, spit on her, pulled out her hair, broke down a locked bathroom door to get at her, gouged at her face with his fingernails, threw steak knives at her like target practice and choked her..."
At this point, all of the above is conjecture and hearsay.
That Mangum stabbed Daye is the truth.
Anonymous said...
KENHYDERAL:
"Reginald Daye was not murdered. He died from medical misadventure. The malpractice was covering this up."
There is no evidence of medical misadventure, no evidence of malpractice. You are not qualified to comment on this. Neither is SIDNEY HARR. I doubt that after his internship SIDNEY never had hands on responsibility for managing a hospital inpatient.
Is Sidney reluctant to advise the Daye family to sue for malpractice is he fears to be called as an expert witness. When asked to establish his expertise, he would reveal he had none.
I am not going to advise the Daye family to do anything, as I am not an advocate for them.
As far as being afraid to be called as an expert witness, unlike other bloggers who are appealing in order not to get involved in legal matters, if afforded the opportunity I would do so with much gusto.
SIDNEY HARR:
"By week's end I will display photos that show Crystal's face with swelling and puncture excoriations made by Daye's fingernails."
You will have to document those photos were taken by the police following Crystal's arrest. You have not documented that the pictures of the bathroom door were police photos.
"Regarding Mr. Daye and the Daye family, you need to get your scorecard in order. I am not advocating for Mr. Daye or his family. I am advocating for Crystal Mangum. The malpractice on the part of Duke University Hospital has bearing on Daye's death in regards to the murder charge against Mangum."
You have presented no evidence that Duke perpetrated any malpractice.
"Daye family legal claims against Duke for malpractice in Daye's treatment and death are of no concern to me. That should be the concern of the malpractice attorney they retain."
So, what if that attorney issues you a subpoena to testify, because of what you have declared in public about Duke? Actually that is a meaningless question. No competent attorney would ever subpoena you as an expert witness. Just like the defendants in the Duke Lacrosse lawsuits would have the sense to subpoena Crystal to testify for them(acknowledgement to KENHYDERAL).
SIDNEY HARR:
"I am not going to advise the Daye family to do anything, as I am not an advocate for them.
As far as being afraid to be called as an expert witness, unlike other bloggers who are appealing in order not to get involved in legal matters, if afforded the opportunity I would do so with much gusto."
Good! With gusto you would demonstrate you are a totall7y incompetent physician.
In any event, the question is moot. No competent, rational attorney would ever retain you as an expert witness physician.
SIDNEY HARR:
"Intern,
If Daye wouldn't have punched her in the head and face repeatedly, spit on her, pulled out her hair, broke down a locked bathroom door to get at her, gouged at her face with his fingernails, threw steak knives at her like target practice and choked her, she would not have stabbed him.
You have presented no evidence that Reginald Daye ever did what you accuse him of doing.
"Let me know if further elucidation is required."
Shirley you jest.
SIDNEY HARR:
When it comes down to evidence, you have never presented any evidence that DA NIFONG was anything but a corrupt prosecutor, or that Crystal was a false accuser, or, for that matter, that any carpetbagger jihad which does not exist.
KENHYDERAL:
More about the botched police investigation on which you are choking and gagging.
DA Nifong took over the case on March 24, 2006.
SBI examination of the rape kit was completed on April 10, 2006.
DNA Security did not get the rape kit material until after the SBI testing was completed.
So, why do you blame the police for not identifying the men who deposited DNA on Crystal?
And can you present any objective factual evidence that Crystal was raped? Unsupported allegations, speculation and conjecture are not evidence. You assert Crystal was raped. Prove it, or eat your words.
I agree with the poster. PROVE it, kenny. and no, simply saying you believe mangum was attacked because mangum says she was attacked...is not PROOF. mangum also said the guys did not/did use condoms, mangum said there were 20/9/6/5 then three attackers.(which was the truth?????), Mangum said she didn't vandalize Walker's car and later admitted she did, mangum said she was raped in her teens (there was no evidence), mangum said her dance partner helped the men rape her, mangum said she was raped and then recanted (did not know whether they penetrated her), mangum said the attack occurred at four different times (changed her story), mangum said seligmann had oral sex with her (then changed her story), mangum said she only had sex ONCE in the week prior to the lax party (with her boyfriend).......samples of males (at least five) were found in and on her (none LAX guys).
soooooo, gee whiz, kenny, just exactly WHIC set of lies do you believe? which version of the non-rape? your best friend is a liar.
Correction:
SIDNEY HARR:
"By week's end I will display photos that show Crystal's face with swelling and puncture excoriations made by Daye's fingernails."
You will have to document those photos were taken by the police following Crystal's arrest. You have not documented that the pictures of the bathroom door were police photos.
"Regarding Mr. Daye and the Daye family, you need to get your scorecard in order. I am not advocating for Mr. Daye or his family. I am advocating for Crystal Mangum. The malpractice on the part of Duke University Hospital has bearing on Daye's death in regards to the murder charge against Mangum."
You have presented no evidence that Duke perpetrated any malpractice.
"Daye family legal claims against Duke for malpractice in Daye's treatment and death are of no concern to me. That should be the concern of the malpractice attorney they retain."
So, what if that attorney issues you a subpoena to testify, because of what you have declared in public about Duke? Actually that is a meaningless question. No competent attorney would ever subpoena you as an expert witness. Just like the defendants in the Duke Lacrosse lawsuits would have the sense NOT to subpoena Crystal to testify for them(acknowledgement to KENHYDERAL).
You claimed in writing, repeatedly, that mangum was beaten severely by daye.....an hour of sheer terror, I believe you called it. You said daye punched mangum ten times in the face. you said he choked her. you said he hit her in the face and on her head.
the ONLY reported marks on her noted by LEO and EMT were small laceration/ mark on her cheeck that could have been there before or put there by someone or something else. one LEO reported NO injuries. mangum was asked if she was hurt and she said NO. I also point out the obvious that Mangum (who asked her dance partner to hit her and to leave marks on her so she could rip off the LAX guys) could have very easily injured herself, at any time, as a way to claim that she was hit by Daye. It does not take a fifth grader to figure out that the serial liar could have, once again, created yet another set of lies. we await these brillant photos.......which will NOT be admissible in court unless they are verified and documented to have been taken by LE
You know what chapped bro's backside more than anything? that, folks, is to be ignored. harr cannot stand to be ignored. he craves attention and will do or say most anything in order to get himself in front of a camera. this self-promoting arrogance and self-stroking covers up his real problems.....which include an apparently lackluster medical career and a deep-seated hatred of white people. harr is not mangum's advocate. harr is harr's advocate.....and he builds his little fantasies, with himself as the star, with one purpose in mind. himself
20mil, harr? PROVE IT. by the way, I wouldn't be the least bit unhappy if it were 50mil? god bless those guys and everybody else who was so grossly maligned by the serial liar mangum and her cesspool DA, nifong.
Amazing, isn't it, that people like harr and kenny.....and the three or four other crackpot bigots who whine about Mangum .....will spend the rest of their lives blaming others for their own failures. poor victoria couldn't get elected....because the evil white people voted against her. golly, what's a homophobe to do??? Poor harr, couldn't clean up on his non-case against Duke. I guess the evil white judges all conspired against him. Poor Kenny, refusing to face the truth that his little killer friend is a liar and trick turner....
Anonymous @ 6:28 said: "the only exercise your mind must get is leaping to conclusions"......................."Your small mind is musclebound with suspicion"
Anonymous @ 8:28 said: "So, why do you blame the police for not identifying the men who deposited DNA on Crystal?"........... I also blame DA Nifong. He did not take into consideration that there were non-Players present and perhaps thought like you that Crystal had been promiscuous. He also thought he could proceed with sexual assault
KENHYDERAL:
"Anonymous @ 6:28 said: "the only exercise your mind must get is leaping to conclusions"..................."Your small mind is musclebound with suspicion"
Your mind is small but hardly capable of anything resembling logical rational thinking.
Either prove Crystal was raped or eat your words.
KENHYDERAL:
"Anonymous @ 8:28 said: "So, why do you blame the police for not identifying the men who deposited DNA on Crystal?"........... I also blame DA Nifong. He did not take into consider that there were non-Players present and perhaps thought like you that Crystal had been promiscuous. He also thought he could proceed with sexual assault".
Very ineffective attempt to weasel out of your claim that the police botched the investigation. Before this post, your story was that the police botched the investigation before DA NIFONG took over.
Lame, Kenny, Very lame. You are lying.
"thought that Crystal had been promiscuous"????? like perhaps thinking Donald Trump has a bad haircut, or, perhaps thinking that Madonna is not a virgin? Like that, kenny?
"perhaps thought, like you, that Cyrstal had been promiscuous".....the line of the week! Kenny, your little friend has turned more tricks than Houdini.
well, heck, kenny.......perhaps crystal mangum is not promiscuous. maybe she just likes having sex...alot....with different partners....alot.
she worked for the Bunny Hole escort service, Kenny. ring any bells for ya? There are photos of her on the web site for this business...sitting astraddle of a chair, in a thong with her body in a "compromised" position. but promiscuous? nah!! she had a paid driver to take her to various motels where she "performed" for her , uh, clients using a vibrator and other toys. but promiscuous? nah. she had male samples in her (five or more) when tested for the non-rape. but promiscuous? nah!!!
Kenny, wanna buy a gen-u-ine Rolex??
Anonymous @ 10:38 said: "Before this post, your story was that the police botched the investigation before DA NIFONG took over"........ And so they did. When DA Nifong took charge he failed as well by thinking he could, by threat or persuasion, break the wall of silence.
Anonymous @ 11:24 said: "your little friend has turned more tricks than Houdini" In the words of the great African American singer Gertrude "Ma" Rainey "they say I do it, aint nobody caught me, yo sure gotta prove it on me" Just try. But keep in mind the Duke LaCrosse Defence spent a lot of time and money trying that without even a hint of success.
KEMNHYDERAL:
"Anonymous @ 10:38 said: "Before this post, your story was that the police botched the investigation before DA NIFONG took over"........ And so they did. When DA Nifong took charge he failed as well by thinking he could, by threat or persuasion, break the wall of silence."
As there had been no rape(Crystal lied), tere was no wall of silence to break. DA NIFONG tried to intimidate Lacrosse players to testify that there had been a rape, which was attempted subornation of of perjury.
Not so nice try, KENNY. You are still a weasel.
KENHYDERAL:
"Different words but the same theme. You insist in the face of overwhelming evidence tha Crystal lied about being raped, you believe innocent men are guilty.
In the meantime, you still fail to present factual, objective evidence that Crystal was raped.
Yup that's Chrystal's MO to a tee......ain't nobody caught her, so,she,didn't do it". Really mature responsible adult attitude. Perfect Kenny hissy, you nailed her. Oooooooo, that was a Freudian slip. Mea culpa, surely you didn't nail her.
I've told you before, Kenny,
The punishment for raping a whore is the same as for raping a nun. A whore who murders someone will receive no worse punishment than a virgin who murders someone.
So what makes you think that anybody tried to prove that?
On the other hand, a troll might feel that this is important, or try to make us think that this is important.
November 27, 2012 6:08 PM
Delete
Guiowen said: "The punishment for raping a whore is the same as for raping a nun" ......... But convicting for the latter is easier. Since Crystal is neither what point are you trying to make? Are you suggesting the Duke LaCrosse Defence did not try to identify Crystal as a prostitute. They certainly tried and when they failed all they were left with was to diseminate the lie that she was one. Because of the civil suits that lie goes on to this day and most of those here have bought into it.
Anonymous @ 3:19 said: "ain't nobody caught her, so,she,didn't do it"........... No, that's ain't nobody caught her "because" she didn't do it"
KENHYDERAL:
"Guiowen said: "The punishment for raping a whore is the same as for raping a nun" ......... But convicting for the latter is easier. Since Crystal is neither what point are you trying to make? Are you suggesting the Duke LaCrosse Defence did not try to identify Crystal as a prostitute. They certainly tried and when they failed all they were left with was to diseminate the lie that she was one. Because of the civil suits that lie goes on to this day and most of those here have bought into it."
I can not speak for Guiowen. Every time you have been challenged to show where the defense attorneys tried to discredit Crystal, you say they do it via their surrogates, Liestoppers or DIW. You can not show any specific instances of which those "surrogates" engaged in a campaign to discredit Crystal. Uncorroborated allegations are proof of nothing, except maybe your unreasonable guilt presuming blatant unrepentant racism. A fine example you are setting for your son - convict peoply you dislike by repeating allegations against them which you can not back up.
KENHYDERAL:
"Anonymous @ 3:19 said: "ain't nobody caught her, so,she,didn't do it"........... No, that's ain't nobody caught her "because" she didn't do it".
And the Lacrosse players were exonerated because the rape Crystal alleged never happened.
I say again, prove the rape happened or eat your words. Uncorroborated allegations prove nothing, except that the person making the allegations can prove nothing.
KENHYDERAL:
"Anonymous @ 11:24 said: "your little friend has turned more tricks than Houdini" In the words of the great African American singer Gertrude "Ma" Rainey "they say I do it, aint nobody caught me, yo sure gotta prove it on me" Just try. But keep in mind the Duke LaCrosse Defence spent a lot of time and money trying that without even a hint of success."
Wrong. Corrupt DA NIFONG, whom you say was concerned only for justice for Crystal, tried to convict the innocent Lacrosse players by hurling public uncorroborated allegations against them and failed. If Crystal was raped, why have you, like corrupt DA NIFONG, failed to prove it? Are you going to try the botched police investigation again? I sure hope so. Show again what a deluded blatant guilt presuming unrepentant racist you are.
KENHYDERAL:
Drom Durham in Wonderland, a series of A NIFONG quotes:
"Thursday, December 28, 2006
Mike Nifong, on the Rape Evidence
In his own words:
December 22: “There is no scientific or other evidence independent of the [accuser’s] testimony that would corroborate specifically” a charge of rape.
---------
March 27: “The information that I have does lead me to conclude that a rape did occur.”
March 29: “My reading of the report of the emergency room nurse would indicate that some type of sexual assault did in fact take place.”
Nifong would not obtain the SANE nurse report until April 5.
March 29: “The circumstances of the rape indicated a deep racial motivation for some of the things that were done.”
March 29: “There’s no doubt in my mind that she was raped and assaulted at this location.”
These four statements all occurred before the accuser gave her oficial statement to police, on April 6, so Nifong could not have been referring to that statement when he made the above four remarks.
April 12: “I’m not going to allow Durham’s view in the minds of the world to be a bunch of lacrosse players at Duke raping a black girl from Durham.”
Rule 3.8(f) of the North Carolina Rules of Professional Conduct requires prosecutors to “refrain from making extrajudicial comments that have a substantial likelihood of heightening public condemnation of the accused.”
In case you are still in denial that DA NIFONG carried on a propaganda campaign to discredit the Duke Lacrosse team, or that DA NFONG was inciting black on white racism.
As I repeatedly said to Kilgo(silly hickenkilly, or wacko quacko Kilgo), put up or shut up. If you can not prove Crystal was raped, then have the moral courage to admit it. Be a good examle to your son.
Amen, poster. Nifong went on national television and demonstrated, on himself, how Mangum was supposedly choked by the men. This demonstration was given in the context of one of her many versions of events....when she said that the men held her up in the air, suspended, and raped her. All this done in a bathroom barely enough for two people to stand up in. During his Bar hearing, when questioned about the 53 statements he made to the press (in violation of the Rules of Conduct), he claimed that he was only making general statements and that he had no idea that it would cause such a reaction. (hurling sounds......)
Nifong LOVED the publicity he was getting, smiled on camera, basked in the limelight. No question about it. Professor Coleman (the supposed dear friend of Harr, who happens to be black) specifically condemned Nifong's tactics and his abuse of power.
Kenny, you want us to believe that Mangum deliberately LIED about who she fingered as her attackers by pointing to LAX guys who were shoved in front of her? You want us to believe she was in on the fix, too? If there were guys at the party who were not LAX guys, then she could have said, "Nope, it wasn't any of these men. She identified one man, with 100% certainty as her attacker, who wasn't even at the party! So I guess she and Nifong were already in cahoots, huh?
HEY, EVERYBODY. LISTEN UP!!
Two important announcements!
First, I am happy to say that there has been a KC Johnson blog siting dated November 27, 2012. Although it is not very interesting, it confirms that he is still out here in the blogosphere. I am relieved to have the Durham-in-Wonderland site back up and running after more than three weeks of silence.
Secondly, tomorrow, Thursday, November 30, 2012, I will post a very important blog... or blink... I'm not yet sure which. But be sure and watch for it. (Remember you can subscribe to this site and not worry about missing a posting.)
Anonymous said...
SIDNEY HARR:
"By week's end I will display photos that show Crystal's face with swelling and puncture excoriations made by Daye's fingernails."
You will have to document those photos were taken by the police following Crystal's arrest. You have not documented that the pictures of the bathroom door were police photos.
"Regarding Mr. Daye and the Daye family, you need to get your scorecard in order. I am not advocating for Mr. Daye or his family. I am advocating for Crystal Mangum. The malpractice on the part of Duke University Hospital has bearing on Daye's death in regards to the murder charge against Mangum."
You have presented no evidence that Duke perpetrated any malpractice.
"Daye family legal claims against Duke for malpractice in Daye's treatment and death are of no concern to me. That should be the concern of the malpractice attorney they retain."
So, what if that attorney issues you a subpoena to testify, because of what you have declared in public about Duke? Actually that is a meaningless question. No competent attorney would ever subpoena you as an expert witness. Just like the defendants in the Duke Lacrosse lawsuits would have the sense to subpoena Crystal to testify for them(acknowledgement to KENHYDERAL).
Regarding the photos, I can only present what the Durham police and prosecutors put on their discovery disks. If they didn't put time stamps on the photos, surely you do not expect me to do so.
Regarding culpability for Daye's death, who do you think was responsible for misplacing the endotracheal tube in Daye's esophagus? ... a homicidal fairy?
Finally, if I was subpoenaed to testify, I would gladly do so for I have nothing to hide and would gladly shine light on the truth... unlike some other bloggers.
Anonymous said...
You know what chapped bro's backside more than anything? that, folks, is to be ignored. harr cannot stand to be ignored. he craves attention and will do or say most anything in order to get himself in front of a camera. this self-promoting arrogance and self-stroking covers up his real problems.....which include an apparently lackluster medical career and a deep-seated hatred of white people. harr is not mangum's advocate. harr is harr's advocate.....and he builds his little fantasies, with himself as the star, with one purpose in mind. himself
This comment definitely deserves recognition for consideration in the Year's Most Idiotic Blog Comment Contest. First, Harr is anything but an attention-seeker. Harr is an enlightener, and there is a big difference. Furthermore, Harr is camera shy, and you would be hard pressed to find him caught on media video... although that is not to say that he has never reluctantly placed himself before the media's cameras.
Finally, I don't hate anyone, period. The only things I hate are cockroaches, flies, and black-widow spiders.
"First, I am happy to say that there has been a KC Johnson blog siting dated November 27, 2012. Although it is not very interesting, it confirms that he is still out here in the blogosphere. I am relieved to have the Durham-in-Wonderland site back up and running after more than three weeks of silence."
Wow. Jealous much? Have you been comparing your site's statistics against DIW again?
Addendum to above comment: I also hate Brussel sprouts and lima beans.
dont you love how sidney refers to himself in the third person? that's just, well, just adorable. what a cute little affectation. sounds like the golom in lord of the rings.
harr loves publicity. loves it. that's why he stood on the street corner with two other boobs during his, laughing sounds, "press" conferences and blustered about Mangum. that's why he wears that godawful s-shirt to professional meetings where a Judge is speaking. what I find most hilarious is his silly "V" avatar, referencing, of course, his vendetta mentality. Funny. funny. and more funny.
sad little man, so full of jealousy and hate.
The reason sidney points out the comment from the poster about his attention-craving behavior is that the poster has hit it, right on the button, and sidney does not like to be revealed for what he is. good job, poster, you described him to a "yellow" T
Harr says KCJohnson's latest is "not very interesting". That's amazing and so predictable, given Harr's intellectual limitations. Words too big for you, sidney? Concepts too abstract for your clouded brain? Too hard to stay on the train of thought? Johnson presents a thoughtful and carefully laid out piece, particularly on the latest gumball nonsense from Wendy "there is no such thing as a false rape claim" Murphy". Harr, on the other hand, delights us with silly honey boo-boo references and rambling gibberish. My oh my, jealousy thou art sidney....
Actually, it's appropriate the T-shirts for the bigot KLAN are yellow. Cowardice takes many forms. In particular, I find it cowardly for Victoria Peterson to spout her hate flled crap about gay people while she hides behind her blackness as an excuse to be an ass in court. Good color for the j4n gang.....yellow.
Kenhyderal said:
'Guiowen said: "The punishment for raping a whore is the same as for raping a nun" ......... But convicting for the latter is easier. Since Crystal is neither what point are you trying to make?'
The point that I'm making -- and please don't be so disingenuous as to make believe you don't understand it -- is that there is nothing to gain by proving that Crystal is a prostitute. Of course some people talk about it (how could they not?) but it's not important.
Please understand I'm not judging Crystal. I've told you before that I'm broadminded, and I believe she has a right to make a living any way she likes.
Guiowen said: "The point that I'm making -- and please don't be so disingenuous as to make believe you don't understand it -- is that there is nothing to gain by proving that Crystal is a prostitute. Of course some people talk about it (how could they not?) but it's not important".................... And the point I'm making is that if they could have identified Crystal as a prostitute it might have added credence to their proffered theory that she lied about being sexually assaulted in order to extort money from their innocent and naïve clients.You ask how could they not? Well, moral people do not gossip and bear false wittness against someone. Not important? It is important for Crystal, her children and her friends that her character not be be besmirched by vicious lies.
Kenhyderal,
You're the one who, with your antiquated morals, are making Crystal feel bad about her career choice. If it weren't for trolls like you, no one would criticize her for this decision.
SIDNEY HARR:
"
This comment definitely deserves recognition for consideration in the Year's Most Idiotic Blog Comment Contest. First, Harr is anything but an attention-seeker."
Boy did HARR get that wrong.
"Harr is an enlightener, and there is a big difference."
Boy did HARR get that even more wrong.
"Furthermore, Harr is camera shy, and you would be hard pressed to find him caught on media video... although that is not to say that he has never reluctantly placed himself before the media's cameras."
At the Raleigh MLK parade a few years ago, you were trying to force yourself onto the camera in a way that indicated you love publicity. To say on one hand you are camera shy but are not reluctant to go before a camera is hypocrisy. But you have made it abundantly clear you are a hypocrite.
"Finally, I don't hate anyone, period."
Your actions say louder than any words you spout out that you do hate certain people.
"The only things I hate are cockroaches, flies, and black-widow spiders."
You forgot the following: Duke Lacrosse players; their attorneys; their families; Duke University, because it settled with the innocent Lacrosse players and not with you; Attorney General Roy Cooper because he established the innocence of the Lacrosse players, which should have been obvious to DA NIFONG on day 1.
SIDNEY HARR:
"Addendum to above comment: I also hate Brussel sprouts and lima beans."
An addendum to your addendum is that you also hate Reginald Daye, in spite of any protestations you do not.
Talk about self righteous hypocrisy..........Mangum, the stripper who performs sexual acts with a vibrator in motel rooms for clients...is worried about her reputation and her children's view of her? That, folks, gets the funny award! The lying convicted criminal is all indignant because people talk about her cathouse morals? She allows her picture to be taken for the internet, working for the Bunny Hole escort service, with her legs pointed north and south, wearing her underwear....and she's concerned what people think????
Oh, kenny, please spare us....rolling on the floor, laughing, doesn't even begin to describe how comical this is, pal!
The Mother of the Year, liar, convict, violent, drunk, reckless, killer wants us to believe she is Miss Goody TwoShoes? Okiedoke, kenny........still have that genuine rolex for you!
KENHYDERAL:
"Guiowen said: "The point that I'm making -- and please don't be so disingenuous as to make believe you don't understand it -- is that there is nothing to gain by proving that Crystal is a prostitute. Of course some people talk about it (how could they not?) but it's not important".................... And the point I'm making is that if they could have identified Crystal as a prostitute it might have added credence to their proffered theory that she lied about being sexually assaulted in order to extort money from their innocent and naïve clients."
The innocent defendants did not have to bring up Crystal's sexual history to prove she lied about being raped. No evidence of rape on the rape kit, no evidence of rape on the physical exam, Crystal's non credible allegations, Crystal's inability to identify any Lacrosse player as an assailant, all prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Crystal lied about being raped.
You ask how could they not? Well, moral people do not gossip and bear false wittness against someone. Not important?"
Why did Crystal bear false witness against her neighbors(remember the Good Samaritan). Why do you support her decision to bear false witness against others? You are teaching your son that Hypocrisy, if applied to those whom you judge to be deserving of it, is upright moral behavior.
"It is important for Crystal, her children and her friends that her character not be be besmirched by vicious lies."
What has besmirched Crystal's reputation is the truth, about which you are in denial.
I again challenge you. PROVE THAT CRYSTAL WAS RAPED, that is if you can.
Personally I don't give a damn whether Mangum is a hooker. In fact, it takes both whores and johns to make the deal.....so let's give equal condemnation to those loser men who have to pay for sex, shall we!
On the other hand, I think it is stupid for Kenny to try to pretend his best friend is anything but what she is.......a sex worker who has been selling it for years....and who has never been "caught" at it. Period.
Women have been engaged in the oldest profession since some guy first said "how much"? Last time I checked, though, it is still against the law in NC. The fact that Mangum has not gotten caught proves nothing.....one way or the other.
Again, whether she sells it or gives it away, is of no consequence in the matter of whether she is found guilty or not guilty of first degree murder....as far as I am concerned.
I think she is an immoral no-character person....but, she deserves and I hope she gets....her day in court.
SIDNEY HARR:
"
Regarding the photos, I can only present what the Durham police and prosecutors put on their discovery disks. If they didn't put time stamps on the photos, surely you do not expect me to do so."
You are admitting you do not have photos with date and time stamps, which indicates you may be lying about where the pictures come from. Not surprising considering you long history of promulgating obvious lies as the truth, e.g. the innocence of the Lacrosse players was never established.
Regarding culpability for Daye's death, who do you think was responsible for misplacing the endotracheal tube in Daye's esophagus? ... a homicidal fairy?"
No one was responsible. The tube was not improperly placed. Just as no one was responsible for raping Crystal because she was not raped.
"Finally, if I was subpoenaed to testify, I would gladly do so for I have nothing to hide and would gladly shine light on the truth... unlike some other bloggers."
What other bloggers. You are the only Blogger(and that is stretching the meaning of the word) who consistently promulgates obvious lies as enlightenment. If you shine light on anything, you shine it on the eyes of people to blind them to the truth.
SIDNEY HARR:
"HEY, EVERYBODY. LISTEN UP!!
Two important announcements!
First, I am happy to say that there has been a KC Johnson blog siting dated November 27, 2012. Although it is not very interesting, it confirms that he is still out here in the blogosphere. I am relieved to have the Durham-in-Wonderland site back up and running after more than three weeks of silence."
This from someone who is desperate to have KC Johnson notice him.
"Secondly, tomorrow, Thursday, November 30, 2012, I will post a very important blog... or blink... I'm not yet sure which. But be sure and watch for it."
You have never posted an important blog in your life. Calling you a blogger is a serious stretching of the term.
"(Remember you can subscribe to this site and not worry about missing a posting.)"
Sensible people would be more worried about having to read one more of you HEY LOOK AT ME ravings.
SIDNEY HARR:
"Finally, if I was subpoenaed to testify, I would gladly do so for I have nothing to hide and would gladly shine light on the truth... unlike some other bloggers."
If you were to testify that the ET tube had been improperly placed you would be committing perjury. The records you illegally accessed and published documented that the tube was properly placed.
SIDNEY HARR:
Correction:
"The only things I hate are cockroaches, flies, and black-widow spiders."
You forgot the following: Duke Lacrosse players; their attorneys; their families; Duke University, because it settled with the innocent Lacrosse players and not with you; Attorney General Roy Cooper because he established the innocence of the Lacrosse players, which an ethical prosecutor would have established on day 1.
"This comment definitely deserves recognition for consideration in the Year's Most Idiotic Blog Comment Contest"
Not even close, Sid...
January 6:
"The attorney's job is to assure that the meritorious case (such as mine) loses in court. Then the attorney, for purposely bungling the case, can receive a much bigger payout from the opposition"
January 15:
"My lawsuit against Duke has merit"
January 14:
"Mike Nifong didn't deserve to be disbarred"
March 31:
"My lawsuit against Duke has more importance than Watergate"
...And that's just the first quarter.
There was some question regarding Sid's background as a physician.
In a prior response on a previous post, Sid stated:
"An attorney who was representing me on trumped up criminal charges was promised that cases would be sent his way if he was able to get me to accept a plea deal from the prosecutor...My wife...forced the judge to refer the case to a civil court where a settlement was reached..."
So Sid, what was this "trumped up criminal charge"? What was the result of the civil court settlement?
KENHYDERAL:
In your statements about Crystal, you say that the defense was labeling her a prostitute to make it easier to prove she was lying about being raped.
You forget that the defense is obligated to prove nothing. The prosecution has the obligation to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the crime happened and that the accused perpetrated the crime.
The relevant issue is, how could DA NIFONG prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Crystal was telling the truth, that the crime did happen?
Lance states:
"There was some question regarding Sid's background as a physician.
In a prior response on a previous post, Sid stated:
"An attorney who was representing me on trumped up criminal charges was promised that cases would be sent his way if he was able to get me to accept a plea deal from the prosecutor...My wife...forced the judge to refer the case to a civil court where a settlement was reached..."
Lance, I did not recall this statement from Sidney; had to look it up. Quite revealing, actually. "My wife forced the judge to refer the case..? Where settlement was reached? Settlement of a criminal matter in a civil court? If Harr had a run-in with the law that was significant it might explain his reluctance to disclose his full credentials and professional experience, and, the real reasons for his retirement. (forced?) loss of license to practice?
This history of his further explains his irrational hatred of white people and his stance that he is, somehow, above the law.
Anonymous said: "The relevant issue is, how could DA NIFONG prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Crystal was telling the truth, that the crime did happen" ...He could not of, unless he made the effort to identify the source of the DNA extracted from sperm found on Crystal's rape kit or else if any who witnessed the sexual assault came forward. This will have to await the re-opening of the case when identification of Kilgo's friend, a former Duke LaCrosse Player is subpoenaed and made to testify.
Guiowen said:"You're the one who, with your antiquated morals, are making Crystal feel bad about her career choice. If it weren't for trolls like you, no one would criticize her for this decision..... Huh? I'm making Crystal feel bad? I completely understand why Crystal, who without child support, that was due her and a desire to go to College,chose the job of exotic dancing, especially when even minimum wage jobs in North Carolina were scarce. This seemed to be a viable option. Her Pastor tried to desuade her from this non-judgementally but with the knowledge of the many risks associated with this type of a job.
kenhyderal said...
Anonymous said: "The relevant issue is, how could DA NIFONG prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Crystal was telling the truth, that the crime did happen" ...He could not of, unless he made the effort to identify the source of the DNA extracted from sperm found on Crystal's rape kit or else if any who witnessed the sexual assault came forward. This will have to await the re-opening of the case when identification of Kilgo's friend, a former Duke LaCrosse Player is subpoenaed and made to testify.
Well, Kenny, I'm glad to see you're at least paying lip service to my advice. Of course you're doing nothing, so far as I can see, to actually locate Kilgo. Why not? Are you afraid of what you might find?
Have you at least done anything about coming to NC? Or are you waiting for some sign from above (all in God's good time)?
Kenny's comments are an insult to working mothers. I mean, a world class insult. Poor thing...she was forced to have children. bless her heart, she wanted to go to college...so the only choice was to hump her way through, pole vaulting. Wow, I guess getting drunk, stealing a car, driving like a maniac, getting her license suspended, trying to run over an officer, attacking a man's car, setting clothes on fire, abusing her children, turning tricks in motels, using a vibrator on herself in front of others, lying her head off to try to extort money from innocent men.....ALL of that is NOT her fault! of course not. I love the line about the pastor trying to discourage her from working in a strip joint.....as if that somehow makes sister religious. High comedy, Kenny....keep it up.....
" This will have to await the re-opening of the case when identification of Kilgo's friend, a former Duke LaCrosse Player is subpoenaed and made to testify.
In other words, this will never happen as:
1) There was no rape
2) There is no "Kilgo's friend" to subpoena.
KENHYDERAL:
"
Anonymous said: "The relevant issue is, how could DA NIFONG prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Crystal was telling the truth, that the crime did happen" ...He could not of, unless he made the effort to identify the source of the DNA extracted from sperm found on Crystal's rape kit"
Instead he tried to conceal the fact that DNA from sperm from men who were not Lacrosse players was found on Crystal. You are ignoring that fact.
"or else if any who witnessed the sexual assault came forward."
Which would be impossible since there was no sexual assault to witness.
"This will have to await the re-opening of the case when identification of Kilgo's friend, a former Duke LaCrosse Player is subpoenaed and made to testify."
First Kilgo dhas never proven that said Lacrosse player even exists. Then, if someone does come forth and says he witnessed a rape, whoever tried to overcome the weight of the forensic evidence that no rape happened. That evidence would not be negated if someone did come forth and claimed to have been a witness.
Correction for Kilgo:
First Kilgo dhas never proven that said Lacrosse player even exists. Then, if someone does come forth and says he witnessed a rape, whoever brought him forth would have to overcome the weight of the forensic evidence that no rape happened. That evidence would not be negated if someone did come forth and claimed to have been a witness
Kenny, do you realize you are calling your best friend, sister, a liar? She named three guys, eventually, as her attackers...actually 20, then 9, 6, five, four...whatever. All three were LAX players. of course, also named a fourth, with 100% certainty, as an attacker....but, ooops, he wasn't even at the party. (hundreds of miles away). so, you say Kilgo had a little friend, who said there was somebody else at the party who attacked mangum. why, then, kenny, did mangum LIE and name the three guys? why didn't she say it wasn't them.... either she is a liar or you are supporting a liar, kilgo. make up your mind....who is lying, pal...??
KENHYDERAL:
"Guiowen said:"You're the one who, with your antiquated morals, are making Crystal feel bad about her career choice. If it weren't for trolls like you, no one would criticize her for this decision..... Huh? I'm making Crystal feel bad? I completely understand why Crystal, who without child support, that was due her and a desire to go to College,chose the job of exotic dancing, especially when even minimum wage jobs in North Carolina were scarce. This seemed to be a viable option. Her Pastor tried to desuade her from this non-judgementally but with the knowledge of the many risks associated with this type of a job."
What does that have to do with the prosecution's obligation to prove the rape happened. The evidence is, Crystal was not raped.
KENHYDERAL:
To put it more succinctly, even if a witness did come forth more than 6 years after the case, in the face of all the evidence that the rape did not take place, how would that, establish probable cause that a rape took place?
KENHYDERAL:
How was it established as fact that the non Lax sperm cell DNA was deposited on the night of 13/14 March 2006? Or more specifically in the earliest part of the morning of 14 March 2006? Your logic, that the sperm DNA had to come from sperm deposited in the earliest morning of 14 March 2006 is called presuming a fact not in evidence.
why did Mangum name the three LAX guys if somebody else raped her, Kenny? I thought you said she was a moral person.....so was she lying when she named the three LAX guys or what?
Crystal was told that her assailants were present in the photo line-up that she was shown and she was pressured to make identifications. Obviously some of those who participated were not in the line-up. Those who know anything about photo line-ups know how fraught with error they can be, especially those that are not properly conducted. Keep in mind this was a gang rape, that she alleges, in which she was, from all indications, first drugged. The events were and still are, in her mind, a series of frightening images. I don't know if any posters here have experienced this kind of trauma but if there are they can attest to the mental and physical trauma of such a happening.
Anonymous @ 1:13 said: "Kenny, do you realize you are calling your best friend, sister, a liar?".......................... When did I ever do that. How do your reach such a conclusion.
" that she alleges, in which she was, from all indications, first drugged"
All indications are that she was impaired due to her ingestion of a combination of prescription medications and alcohol consumed prior to appearing at the Duke party.
So now you are claiming that Mangum was forced into lying by the law officers present when the photos were presented. Bull crap. She lied, Kenny. Now you are trying to weasel your way out of it. If you claim that somebody else, a nonlax player, raped her.....and she said it was three LAX guys......then either YOU are HER is lying. Which one of you is it?
I remind you she was clear enough the non-rape in her description to say which man penetrated her, who had oral sex with her, and so forth....yet now you claim that she was drugged on her ass and could't remember, so she just picked three guys out of the air? Or, was it that she was told who to pick? is that your story, pal? get it straight.....
To the contrary, Kenny, most women who have been raped (and who claim they can recall which man did what to them, as Mangum did) have a VERY clear image in their heads of their attacker(s). This was not something that supposedly happened in a dark alley. This was not something that supposedly happened while the men wore facemasks. This was not something that supposedly happened after she was severely beaten. She had ZERO injuries consistent with a beating. This supposedly happened in a bathroom the size of a closet, with the lights on.....and yet you claim that Mangum couldn't figure out that nobody in the photos was the attacker during her non rape (because it didn't happen), so she gave in and just played pin the tail on the LAX guy. come on, kenny.........even YOU aren't that stupid.
KENHYDERAL:
"Crystal was told that her assailants were present in the photo line-up that she was shown and she was pressured to make identifications."
She was pressed to identify Lacrosse players as her assailants because DA NIFONG wanted to convict lacrosse players.
"Obviously some of those who participated were not in the line-up."
Participated in what? The non existent rape you keep talking about?
Those who know anything about photo line-ups know how fraught with error they can be, especially those that are not properly conducted."
Those who knew about lineups include DA NIFONG, who ordered the improper lineup, a fact you are ignoring. You suspect David Evans of involvement in the alleged rape because Crystal was pressured to identify him. Boy are you hypocritical here.
"Keep in mind this was a gang rape, that she alleges, in which she was, from all indications, first drugged."
Keep in mind that no rape happened. Keep in mind KENNY is dodging challenges to prove Crystal was raped. Keep in mind that KENNY has provided no evidence that Crystal was drugged.
"The events were and still are, in her mind, a series of frightening images."
Impossible, because no events happened. KENNY does not try to prove Crystal was raped.
"I don't know if any posters here have experienced this kind of trauma but if there are they can attest to the mental and physical trauma of such a happening."
You are talking about real gang rape victims, which Crystal is not. You have not even tried to prove she was raped. You haven't got any proof.
KENHYDERAL:
PROVE CRYSTAL WAS RAPED!!!!
So far, like a cowardly unreasonable guilt presuming racist, you are ducking this challenge. The fact that you avoid this challenge under your screen name does not indicate you are not a coward.
KENHYDERAL:
PROVE CRYSTAL WAS RAPED!!!!
So far, like a cowardly unreasonable guilt presuming racist, you are ducking this challenge. The fact that you avoid this challenge under your screen name does not indicate you are not a coward.
KENHYDERAL:
Previously you challenged me to give my opinion on Mr. Reginald Daye. I gave you a number of opinions.
Why haven't you responded to the challenge I have repeatedly issued to prove Crystal was raped?
The answer is, Crystal was not raped. In the face of that, no one, least of all you, can prove she was.
Anonymous @ 5:20 said: "Why haven't you responded to the challenge I have repeatedly issued to prove Crystal was raped?"....... Of course it was up to the prosecution to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Crystal was raped. This they were unable to do because of a flawed investigation and presently neither can I. Marsha Clark and Chris Darden failed to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that OJ Simpson killed his wife and Ron Goldman. As has been shown time and time again, with skillful attorneys people can get away with crimes that they have certainly committed. That does not stop people from having their own opinion as to the guilt of those acquitted. Only by re-opening the case, because of new evidence, that was not uncovered before, will evidence that Crystal was raped come out. The forensic evidence may not have been preserved. Perparing a comprehensive list of all who were in attendance will now be difficult. Any eye witness who now comes forward will be challenged and most likely slandered in order to discredit them. Most likely, like OJ Simpson, the perpetrators will walk free but Crystal will have the option of a civil action. Hopefully her ridiculous first degree murder charge will be soon dealt with and she will be able to if called on to intervene for the defendants in the rapacious civil suits that the Players and their greedy trial lawyers have launched hoping to extract even more money from the people.
KENHYDERAL:
"Anonymous @ 5:20 said: "Why haven't you responded to the challenge I have repeatedly issued to prove Crystal was raped?"....... Of course it was up to the prosecution to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Crystal was raped. This they were unable to do because of a flawed investigation and presently neither can I."
This they were unable to prove beyond a reasonable doubt because the evidence was that no rape had happened.
"Marsha Clark and Chris Darden failed to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that OJ Simpson killed his wife and Ron Goldman. As has been shown time and time again, with skillful attorneys people can get away with crimes that they have certainly committed."
Totally irrelevant to the Duke phoney rape case. The evidence in the Duke phoney rape case showed no crime had been committed. You are arguing that the investigation was flawed because no evidence of guilt was discovered. You are presuming guilt.
"That does not stop people from having their own opinion as to the guilt of those acquitted."
No it doesn't. It does establish in the phoney Duke rape case that your opinion is based on a biased, unreasonable guilt presuming attitude, not on any evidence.
More to follow.
KENHYDERAL:
"Only by re-opening the case, because of new evidence, that was not uncovered before, will evidence that Crystal was raped come out."
So bring out new evidence rather than presuming guilt. I say again, repeating uncorroborated allegations is not bringing up new evidence.
"The forensic evidence may not have been preserved. Perparing a comprehensive list of all who were in attendance will now be difficult."
A list of all who attended was compiled. Your contention that it was not is based on the finding of Male DNA on Crystal's person that did not match the DNA of any of those who were present. You are basing your contention on a fact not in evidence, that a rape did occur. Forensic testing of the rape kit, the record of which has been preserved, showed no rape occurred.
"Any eye witness who now comes forward will be challenged and most likely slandered in order to discredit them."
You are arguing that any eye witness who might come forward more than six years after the non crime was alleged to have happened must be deemed credible and his testimony must be given more weight than the overwhelming forensic evidence that no crime had happened. The fact that such a witness would come forward over 6 years after the non crime in and of itself challenges his credibility. The defense is not obligated to disprove his credibility. The prosecution has to prove his credibility.
"Most likely, like OJ Simpson, the perpetrators will walk free but Crystal will have the option of a civil action."
No perpetrators will walk free because there were no perpetrators. The appearance of an eyewitness more than 6 years after the non crime is hardly enough to give Crystal a cause of action. And if Crystal does sue, she will have to expose herself to cross examination. She did not make a credible case for rape then. What makes you thing she will be able to do so now?
"Hopefully her ridiculous first degree murder charge will be soon dealt with"
That will have to be dealt with by the courts, not by SIDNEY HARR.
"and she will be able to if called on to intervene for the defendants in the rapacious civil suits that the Players and their greedy trial lawyers have launched hoping to extract even more money from the people."
I say again, none of the defendants will call on Crystal to testify in the civil suits because she was not credible 6+ years ago and SIDNEY's interference in her case now shows she is still not credible. You forget, even after her book publishing event she was no willing to take questions about the non crime. What makes you think she would be willing now?
You have demonstrated you can not prove that Crystal was raped. You have demonstrated yet again your unreasonable guilt presuming attitude is based on a biased, resentful attitude towards the members of the Lacrosse team because of who they are - men who are more accomplished and better off than you are.
The point here, Kenny, is that NO RAPE HAPPENED. You can fantasize all you want. You can have your opinions till hell freezes over. Who cares. But, if you insist on claiming Mangum was raped, then...fine...you will be called out for what you are. Period. It seems to me that a true friend would be working hard to help Mangum turn her life around by facing her past, telling the truth about the non-rape, and getting herself a lawyer, not an idiot, sitting in the courtroom with her. Mangum is never going to be free of the stigma SHE CREATED by telling lies about those men unless she tells the truth. I think most people would welcome her honesty and, frankly, I think most people would be far more understanding of why she lied than you might suspect. You claim that she was "forced" to identify rapists from the Photos she saw. I suspect that Nifong badly wanted a rape to have happened! If there was force coming from Nifong...it wasn't to pick out attackers, it was to insist that a rape had occured. You want Mangum to have a different life. Tell her to admit that she lied, tell her to take responsibility for her behavior, tell her to face the mistakes she has made, tell her to get a lawyer now to deal with what she has done in killing Daye....and for god sakes, tell her to get as far away from sidney harr as she possibly can. Be a man, Kenny, and, if you are the friend you say you are, stop lying to yourself.
Why does sidney harr lie?
1. about the demolition of the lax house
2. about who set walker's clothes on fire
3. about daye, accusing him of being an alcoholic
4. about the cause of daye's death, claiming mal practice and, at one time, murder by DUH doctors
5. about daye's criminal record
6. about a beating supposedly given to mangum by daye, which did not happen
7. about a prior visit to a clinic by mangum for injuries sustained in a beating by daye, which also did not happen
8. about the incident in 2002 when mangum stole a man's car keys, then his car, drove recklessly without a license while drunk, and tried to run over an officer
9. about his own background which includes questionable criminal/civil charges which he has never disclosed
10. about his true motives for seeking attention for himself
Why is sidney harr a liar?
Who has convictions involving violence against persons and property on their record? Daye, NO. Mangum, YES.
Who has a documented history of substance abuse? Daye, NO. Mangum, YES.
Who has nine convictions on their record, including level three DUI, reckless driving, child abuse, and driving without a license? Daye, NO. Mangum, YES.
Who has a documented history of threatening to stab another person? Daye, NO. Mangum, YES, in front of an LEO, she thretened to stab Walker.
To Anonymous 5:00 a.m.
I think the problem we have with Kenyderal is that we accept his claim that he's Crystal's great friend who just wants to see her free, her reputation restored, etc.
But in this case I honestly believe his actions speak much louder than his words. If he wants to help her, why doesn't he go to Durham, look for this character called Kilgo, who he assures us has this valuable information, and at least interview him?
Every time you try to pin him down as to this (or anything else), he claims that it's a loaded question, which he therefore doesn't have to answer. He claims it has something to do with his family, so I've suggested that he ask his mother for his passport. Instead of explaining exactly what the problem is with his family, he just refuses to answer. Someone asked him whether Nifong acted correctly, so he claimed this was also a loaded question and refused to tell us what it is that Nifong did that was bad, and what was good.
He gives us all sort of quotations, and refuses to discuss the validity of those quotations. The Cioran quotation was one such case.
So at some point we'll just have to accept that he really ids not that interested in Crystal's welfare; he just likes to hear himself talk.
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