justice4nifong: Girlfriends with knives: A comparison

Sunday, September 22, 2013

Girlfriends with knives: A comparison

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Break the Conspiracy said...: Sidney persists in disregarding the case law Walt, Lance and A lawyer have cited and I posted earlier today:

I know we disagree on the removal from life support issue, but I believe that there is legal justification for using it.

Sidney then cites news coverage of the Wrenn case and draws the following conclusion:

Remote as the possibility is/was, there is the slimmest of possibilities that Daye may have regained consciousness after many months on life support. Maybe not likely, but possible.

This argument directly contradicts the reasoning in the Welch decision I posted earlier today—to which Sidney has previously responded: the doctor could not state with certainty whether the victim would have survived had she received a blood transfusion…

Sidney, your argument appears to be indefensible. Welch raises a standard of certainty of success in medical treatment; you concede a probability of remoteness. You ignore this inconsistency, pretending it does not exist. I do not trust media coverage for legal reasoning; I ask that you provide case law to support your argument. Otherwise, it is worthless.

You seek to impose a standard that would eliminate the rights of the victim’s family after their loved one has been victimized. You seek to impose a standard that could result in years and years of uncertainty and an inability to move forward. I find your standard to be reprehensible.

Sidney, I remind you that I have been one of your few supporters. As such, I ask again that you apologize for repeating this moronic argument. I hope you realize that you lose credibility when you make and repeat arguments that are directly contradicted by case law.

As you know, most readers believe that you are either unbelievably stupid or incredibly dishonest. Arguments like this reinforce that belief.; September 26, 2013 at 2:53 PM
Anonymous said...: sid,

Are you selling advertising space? What are the ads for Jennifer Farrell and Michael douglas?; September 26, 2013 at 5:40 PM
Anonymous said...: Dr. Anonymous claims: That would be probable cause if you could demonstrate there was a conspiracy against Crystal.

Demonstration of a conspiracy against Crystal would justify an investigation of a possible murder by conspirators. Without the identification of and evidence against specific defendants, probable cause does not exist.

Please retract this statement.; September 26, 2013 at 5:58 PM
Anonymous said...: Anonymous September 26, 2013 at 5:58 PM

"Dr. Anonymous claims: That would be probable cause if you could demonstrate there was a conspiracy against Crystal.

Demonstration of a conspiracy against Crystal would justify an investigation of a possible murder by conspirators. Without the identification of and evidence against specific defendants, probable cause does not exist.

Please retract this statement."

Are you implying there is a conspiracy against Crystal? Please clarify.

SIDNEY has not established as fact that said conspiracy exists.; September 26, 2013 at 6:29 PM
Anonymous said...: Dr. Anonymous asks: Are you implying there is a conspiracy against Crystal? Please clarify.

No. I said nothing to suggest that there was any evidence of a conspiracy against Crystal.

I noted only that your statement about probable cause was incorrect. I noted hypothetically that if there were proof of a conspiracy against Crystal (not that such conspiracy existed), that proof could justify an investigation into a possible murder.

Proof of a conspiracy (again, a hypothetical) alone would not constitute probable cause. Probable cause would require evidence that specific conspirators committed murder.

You gave Sidney too much credit. I ask that you retract your statement.; September 26, 2013 at 6:38 PM
Anonymous said...: Anonymous September 26, 2013 at 6:38 PM

"You gave Sidney too much credit. I ask that you retract your statement."

I did not and do not sit around waiting for a retraction.; September 26, 2013 at 6:44 PM
Anonymous said...: Dr. Anonymous: I did not and do not sit around waiting for a retraction.

OK. I will bite. Assume that there was credible proof that a widespread conspiracy existed (again, this is hypothetical; I do not believe a conspiracy exists).

Assume that Sidney is correct and that the conspiracy includes the lacrosse defendants, their families and friends, Duke, the Durham police, the Durham fire department, Durham politicians, all defense attorneys in NC, the NC governor, the NC AG, all members of the NC legislature, civil rights organizations, the local, national and international media, the ME and all of the doctors in NC, the CA franchise tax board and countless more that I have obviously forgotten).

Proof of a conspiracy exists as assumed. However, you have no evidence to incriminate any individual. You claim probable cause exists (I claim it does not). What arrests does your probable cause support? (If you answer no one, you have no probable cause.); September 26, 2013 at 6:58 PM
Anonymous said...: Anonymous September 26, 2013 at 6:58 PM

I think I did not make myself clear. Allow me to clarify.

I challenged SIDNEY to provide probable cause to believe Duke deliberately killed Reginald Daye. SIDNEY's explanation, I say, was based on the presumption that Duke killed Reginald Daye to frame Crystal for murder as retaliation for her part in the Duke Lacrosse case.

What I wanted to say was that SIDNEY could establish probable cause only by establishing as fact, not by presuming, that Duke was conspiring against Crystal. I have always maintained that SIDNEY has never established as fact that anyone was conspiring against Crystal.

I gave SIDNEY no credit. What I actually said was he had not established probable cause, that Duke had deliberately killed Reginald Daye.; September 26, 2013 at 7:41 PM
Anonymous said...: And I was saying that proof of a conspiracy was only a first step--and not enough for probable cause. I am giving sidney no credit.; September 26, 2013 at 7:44 PM
kenhyderal said...: Anonymous @ 1:55 said: "There was no evidence of DTs".........This was the presumptive diagnosis made by Duke, based on their assessment of him and they, therefore, made the decision to give him diazepam. His history of excessive alcohol consumption and his high blood alcohol level that, despite of, he was still able to walk and talk indicated, except to those in complete denial that Reginald Daye showed every sign and symptom of a chronic alcoholic.; September 26, 2013 at 9:20 PM
kenhyderal said...: Unlike Dr. Harr, I believe Daye's probable esophageal intubation was accidental. The crime was that this medical error, after the re-intubation was correctly positioned was covered up. An anonymous survey, I cited before, stated that this medical error is often unethically covered up and after correction, can't readily be proven; September 26, 2013 at 9:31 PM
Anonymous said...: no, hissy boy, incorrect. DTs were a rule-out...as was infection. Given Daye's condition, it was FAR more likely that fever, delirium, and other symptoms were the result of infection. Also, incorrect was your statement as to the timing of drug administration. Daye was given the drug several days PRIOR......and itnot given , as a result of any presumptive diagnosis, but rather as a prophylactic measure. There was NO history of excessive alcohol consumption. Mangum's "claim" of his heavy drinking is not evidence and does not establish that he had a record of heavy drinking. In fact, two females with whom he had relationships said he had no such history for either heavy drinking or violence toward either of them.
It is clear that he WAS drinking on the day of his death.....AS WAS MANGUM. If you want to make an inference as to the relationship of alcohol to violence, then I suggest we look to the person who has the REAL DOCUMENTED HISTORY of substance abuse.......as far back as 2002. We all know Mangum's record and the repeated notations of her alcohol consumption and drug use.
You are just doing what you always do........the black whine......and lying character destruction of Daye.; September 27, 2013 at 4:02 AM
Anonymous said...: KENHYDERAL:

"This was the presumptive diagnosis made by Duke, based on their assessment of him and they, therefore, made the decision to give him diazepam. His history of excessive alcohol consumption and his high blood alcohol level that, despite of, he was still able to walk and talk indicated, except to those in complete denial that Reginald Daye showed every sign and symptom of a chronic alcoholic."

How much experience have you had with dealing with real alcoholics. None, I reckon.

Reginald Daye's history did not indicate alcoholism. The fact that he was not stuporous plus that his liver was normal at autopsy strongly suggests the blood alcohol was a lab error.

Your claim that alcoholics can have a normal liver is not that significant. A person who could tolerate an alcohol level of 300 would have been exposing his liver to high doses of liver toxins over a long period of time. Under those circumstances it is highly unlikely he would have a normal liver.

You are nifonging again, presuming guilt and declaring any evidence which does not support your presumption of guilt is meaningless. That is not how it works, even in Canada.; September 27, 2013 at 4:27 AM
Anonymous said...: KENHYDERAL:

"

"Unlike Dr. Harr, I believe Daye's probable esophageal intubation was accidental."

But like SIDNEY the untrained incompetent physician you believe an esophageal intubation happened, in the face of the medical record which stated that a direct laryngoscopy was done and showed the tube was in the trachea. Have you ever seen what the upper airway looks like on a direct laryngoscopy? I did not think so. It is impossible to mistake an esophageal intubation on direct laryngoscopy.

"The crime was that this medical error, after the re-intubation was correctly positioned was covered up. An anonymous survey, I cited before, stated that this medical error is often unethically covered up and after correction, can't readily be proven"

Your statement is irrelevant. There was a direct larybgoscopy which showed the tube was in the trachea. To say that the esophageal intubation was covered up you would have to prove the error took place. To cite evidence iy could have taken place wouldn't do it, even in Canada.; September 27, 2013 at 4:32 AM
Anonymous said...: KENHYDERAL:

I challenge you again to explain how Crystal could have been raped without any physical of forensic evidence having been left.

You have come up with a number of possible explanations of why there was no evidence. What you ignore is, the reasons why evidence should have been left are a lot more cogent than your explanations as to why evidence was not left.

Again, you are nifonging, presuming guilt and then saying any evidence which does not support your presumption of guilt is not important.

Again, it does not work that way. Or rather, it only works that way for a blatant unrepentant guilt presuming racist.; September 27, 2013 at 8:43 AM
Nifong Supporter said...: Anonymous said...
SIDNEY HARR:

"Someone would deliberately intubate Daye's esophagus in order to effect his death.

Then Daye's death would be attributed to Mangum and she would be charged with first degree murder.

If convicted, she would then be sentenced to life in prison... Payback that might be enough to satiate some proponents of the Duke Lacrosse defendants.

That, in a nutshell is why Daye was intubated in the esophagus."

That would be probable cause if you could demonstrate there was a conspiracy against Crystal. How have you established that as fact?

I haven't established it as fact, but I would want to rule it out. The problem is that, to my knowledge, the police did not conduct an investigation to rule it out as a possibility.; September 27, 2013 at 1:09 PM
Nifong Supporter said...: Anonymous said...
no, hissy boy, incorrect. DTs were a rule-out...as was infection. Given Daye's condition, it was FAR more likely that fever, delirium, and other symptoms were the result of infection. Also, incorrect was your statement as to the timing of drug administration. Daye was given the drug several days PRIOR......and itnot given , as a result of any presumptive diagnosis, but rather as a prophylactic measure. There was NO history of excessive alcohol consumption. Mangum's "claim" of his heavy drinking is not evidence and does not establish that he had a record of heavy drinking. In fact, two females with whom he had relationships said he had no such history for either heavy drinking or violence toward either of them.
It is clear that he WAS drinking on the day of his death.....AS WAS MANGUM. If you want to make an inference as to the relationship of alcohol to violence, then I suggest we look to the person who has the REAL DOCUMENTED HISTORY of substance abuse.......as far back as 2002. We all know Mangum's record and the repeated notations of her alcohol consumption and drug use.
You are just doing what you always do........the black whine......and lying character destruction of Daye.

To my knowledge, Crystal Mangum never had her blood alcohol checked. Why do you think that is?; September 27, 2013 at 1:12 PM
Nifong Supporter said...: Anonymous said...
Anonymous September 26, 2013 at 6:58 PM

I think I did not make myself clear. Allow me to clarify.

I challenged SIDNEY to provide probable cause to believe Duke deliberately killed Reginald Daye. SIDNEY's explanation, I say, was based on the presumption that Duke killed Reginald Daye to frame Crystal for murder as retaliation for her part in the Duke Lacrosse case.

What I wanted to say was that SIDNEY could establish probable cause only by establishing as fact, not by presuming, that Duke was conspiring against Crystal. I have always maintained that SIDNEY has never established as fact that anyone was conspiring against Crystal.

I gave SIDNEY no credit. What I actually said was he had not established probable cause, that Duke had deliberately killed Reginald Daye.

Allow me to clarify my statement which is that it is not unreasonable that Daye's death by esophageal intubation was not accidental. That is based on:
1) the fact that esophageal intubation is extremely rare, especially by someone with experience enough to administer a paralytic agent to facilitate the procedure;
2) that the errant tube placement was not corrected after larygoscopic examination due to the negative EtCO2 level (which indicates improper placement);
3) that Daye, being an alcoholic single black man with a criminal record, and lacking a highly professional career status, is readily expendable in North Carolina society (i.e. Racial Justice Act repealed); and
4) the high motivation to sentence Mangum to life in prison if convicted on a murder charge, rather than an assault charge.

So, yes, it is highly possible that Daye's death at Duke University Hospital was intentional. I don't know that it was, although I think it is highly probable. I think an investigation into the possibility should have least been undertaken.

I'm sure Lieutenant Columbo would agree with me on the final point... (and I know he is a fictional character).; September 27, 2013 at 1:25 PM
Nifong Supporter said...: Anonymous said...
sid,

Are you selling advertising space? What are the ads for Jennifer Farrell and Michael douglas?

No... the advertising is free, and I do it because I believe in what they represent and stand for. Jennifer Ferrell is a candidate for Apex Town Council... a person who I highly respect and feel would be an excellent representative of her constituents. The bail bondsman, likewise is of fine character, but his website is being reworked, so I've substituted a link to Greenpeace... another organization in which I have great admiration.

If you have a worthwhile site that you think I might want to place a link on my blog site, send me information about it... or whatever you think might be of interest to our viewers.; September 27, 2013 at 1:33 PM
Anonymous said...: SIDNEY HARR:

"I haven't established it as fact(a conspiracy against Crystal), but I would want to rule it out. The problem is that, to my knowledge, the police did not conduct an investigation to rule it out as a possibility.

Totally meaningless statement.

It is not a case that if you can not rule out a conspiracy then one mst assume there is. The case is, you can not say there is a conspiracy unless you can rule it in. It is a variant of a principle applicable to court cases, that the one who asserts must prpve.; September 27, 2013 at 1:38 PM
Nifong Supporter said...: Anonymous said...
SIDNEY HARR:

If I am a hugh school dropout living on skid row in Algiers, how come I can access the internet at will?

Dr. Anonymous

Do like I do... go to the public library.; September 27, 2013 at 1:38 PM
Anonymous said...: SIDNEY HARR:

"To my knowledge, Crystal Mangum never had her blood alcohol checked. Why do you think that is?"

Because she was clinically drunk at the time she was placed under arrest-sleepy, slurred speech, disorientation.; September 27, 2013 at 1:41 PM
Nifong Supporter said...: Break the Conspiracy said...
Sidney makes the following allegation of muder:

Someone would deliberately intubate Daye's esophagus in order to effect his death.  

Then Daye's death would be attributed to Mangum and she would be charged with first degree murder. 

 If convicted, she would then be sentenced to life in prison... Payback that might be enough to satiate some proponents of the Duke Lacrosse defendants.  

That, in a nutshell is why Daye was intubated in the esophagus.

I agree that medical murder clearly meets the requirements as an independent and intervening cause. You periodically make this allegation, but provide no evidence to support it. You limit your argument to a failure to investigate this possibility (without explaining why an investigation was merited) and vague insinuations that Mangum’s “role” in the lacrosse case have resulted in a widespread conspiracy to send her to prison.

Indeed, most of your posts have focused on malpractice, not murder, as the explanation for an esophageal intubation.

While Mangum is certainly free to raise this explanation as a possibility, I would not recommend that she concentrate her defense on this argument. I would not want to bet my life on a jury accepting this explanation as credible unless I had much more than a vague insinuation of a widespread conspiracy.

Sidney, I remind you that I am one of your few supporters. I hope you realize that you lose credibility when you make and repeat arguments that have no evidence to support them. As you know, most readers believe that you are either unbelievably stupid or incredibly dishonest. Arguments like this reinforce that belief.

Hey, Break.

My position is not so much that she should use intentional esophageal intubation in her defense, although I think it is not unreasonable, but my main issue is that the police should have ruled it out as a possibility. For example, what it Daye's intubation was the only esophageal intubation he ever made in performing thousands of them? What if it came to light that he was a past player on the Duke lacrosse team? What if he is a secret member of the KKK? I'm not saying that he is, but whoever made the fatal intubation should be investigated and an intentional esophageal intubation ruled out.; September 27, 2013 at 1:44 PM
Anonymous said...: SIDNET HARR:

"Allow me to clarify my statement which is that it is not unreasonable that Daye's death by esophageal intubation was not accidental. That is based on:
1) the fact that esophageal intubation is extremely rare, especially by someone with experience enough to administer a paralytic agent to facilitate the procedure;"

Rare but not unheard of.

"2) that the errant tube placement was not corrected after larygoscopic examination due to the negative EtCO2 level (which indicates improper placement);"

According to the records you illegally accessed and posted, yes it was.

"3) that Daye, being an alcoholic single black man with a criminal record, and lacking a highly professional career status, is readily expendable in North Carolina society (i.e. Racial Justice Act repealed); and"

You have not established as fact that Reginald Daye was alcoholic. His so called criminal record was one incident years before he was stabbed. The same document which you claim showed his criminal and alcoholic record contained statemen6ts from two women that Reginald Daye was not violent and was not an alcoholic, information you tried to suppress.

"4) the high motivation to sentence Mangum to life in prison if convicted on a murder charge, rather than an assault charge."

You are alleging a conspiracy against Crystal. You have not established a conspiracy existed. I repeat, you do not establish conspiracy by failing to rule it out.You establish it by ruling it in.

"So, yes, it is highly possible that Daye's death at Duke University Hospital was intentional. I don't know that it was, although I think it is highly probable. I think an investigation into the possibility should have least been undertaken."

It is not highly possible that Duke deliberately killed Reginald Daye.

"I'm sure Lieutenant Columbo would agree with me on the final point... (and I know he is a fictional character)."

Just like the carpetbagger jihad, Lt.Columbo does not exist. This statement is totally worthless.; September 27, 2013 at 1:51 PM
Anonymous said...: SIDNEY HARR:

"Hey, Break.

My position is not so much that she should use intentional esophageal intubation in her defense, although I think it is not unreasonable, but my main issue is that the police should have ruled it out as a possibility. For example, what it Daye's intubation was the only esophageal intubation he ever made in performing thousands of them? What if it came to light that he was a past player on the Duke lacrosse team? What if he is a secret member of the KKK? I'm not saying that he is, but whoever made the fatal intubation should be investigated and an intentional esophageal intubation ruled out."

I say again this statement is totally worthless. Criminal procedure is not, unless you can rule out a crime, it must be believed it happened. The procedure is, you must rule in the possibility of a crime in order to charge someone.

You would have realized that if you were really as astute as you delusionally believe yourself to be.; September 27, 2013 at 1:55 PM
Anonymous said...: SIDNEY HARR:

"Hey, Break.

"For example, what it Daye's intubation was the only esophageal intubation he ever made in performing thousands of them? What if it came to light that he was a past player on the Duke lacrosse team? What if he is a secret member of the KKK? I'm not saying that he is, but whoever made the fatal intubation should be investigated and an intentional esophageal intubation ruled out.

Again you show how delusionally you misunderstand the criminal system. Proper criminal investigative procedure does not mean one assumes a crime if one can not rule it out. You have no probable cause to belireve a crime happened unless you can rule it in.

Even Lt. Columbo and Perry Mason would understand that, if they existed. How does it feel for you to realize you are dumber than to non existnt individuals?; September 27, 2013 at 2:01 PM
Anonymous said...: Correction of typo:

SIDNEY HARR:

"Hey, Break.

"For example, what it Daye's intubation was the only esophageal intubation he ever made in performing thousands of them? What if it came to light that he was a past player on the Duke lacrosse team? What if he is a secret member of the KKK? I'm not saying that he is, but whoever made the fatal intubation should be investigated and an intentional esophageal intubation ruled out.

Again you show how delusionally you misunderstand the criminal system. Proper criminal investigative procedure does not mean one assumes a crime if one can not rule it out. You have no probable cause to belireve a crime happened unless you can rule it in.

Even Lt. Columbo and Perry Mason would understand that, if they existed. How does it feel for you to realize you are dumber than TWO non existent individuals?; September 27, 2013 at 2:04 PM
Anonymous said...: SIDNEY HARR:

What is really frightening for Crystal. Your belief that she should trust you for legal advice instead of a trained lawyer who understands the criminal justice system.; September 27, 2013 at 2:26 PM
Anonymous said...: Dr. Harr, when Duke is involved - anyone and everyone is expendable. The only thing in their mind NOT expendable is the prestige of the name of DUKE - as that IS their main money maker.; September 27, 2013 at 3:52 PM
Anonymous said...: Anonymous September 27, 2013 at 3:52 PM

"Dr. Harr, when Duke is involved - anyone and everyone is expendable. The only thing in their mind NOT expendable is the prestige of the name of DUKE - as that IS their main money maker."

Provide documentation of your allegations.; September 27, 2013 at 4:54 PM
Anonymous said...: to leave ms. mangum without a lawyer to adequately represent her in this case IS duke's main tactic at this point. that and controlling the judicial system, media, government, lawyers, bar association in NC - maybe elsewhere, and minds of all with their corrupt fear-based we HAVE to be the best or else ways ... that - and chaos - they love to employ chaos to cover their inept cruel murdering raping pedophiling lying cheating stupid human ways performed in the duty of playing duke devil gods and their minions; September 27, 2013 at 5:37 PM
Anonymous said...: Anonymous @5:37:

Thank you for your insightful and well written post.; September 27, 2013 at 5:51 PM
Anonymous said...: September 27, 2013 at 5:37 PM Anonymous said...

"to leave ms. mangum without a lawyer to adequately represent her in this case IS duke's main tactic at this point."

No, that has been Crystal's and SIDNEY's tactic.

"that and controlling the judicial system, media, government, lawyers, bar association in NC - maybe elsewhere, and minds of all with their corrupt fear-based we HAVE to be the best or else ways ... that - and chaos - they love to employ chaos to cover their inept cruel murdering raping pedophiling lying cheating stupid human ways performed in the duty of playing duke devil gods and their minions"

Provide facts, not just allegations.; September 27, 2013 at 5:53 PM
Anonymous said...: ...
stupid evil duke troll
blah; September 27, 2013 at 6:11 PM
Anonymous said...: Anonymous @6:11:

Thank you for your witty rejoinder.; September 27, 2013 at 6:18 PM
Anonymous said...: Anonymous September 27, 2013 at 6:11 PM:

"...
stupid evil duke troll
blah"

More impotent name calling.; September 27, 2013 at 6:22 PM
Anonymous said...: ah you're welcome
not a problem; September 27, 2013 at 6:22 PM
Anonymous said...: blah; September 27, 2013 at 6:23 PM
Anonymous said...: Anonymous @6:23:

Thank you for your clever reply.; September 27, 2013 at 6:43 PM
Anonymous said...: how's this one:

blah blah blah

i'm a thinkin bout gettn really creative with my blahs at some point
... something to think about; September 27, 2013 at 6:54 PM
A Lawyer said...: that and controlling the judicial system, media, government, lawyers, bar association in NC - maybe elsewhere, and minds of all with their corrupt fear-based we HAVE to be the best or else ways ... that - and chaos - they love to employ chaos to cover their inept cruel murdering raping pedophiling lying cheating stupid human ways performed in the duty of playing duke devil gods and their minions

If you wrap aluminum foil round your head, it will keep the mind-control rays out.; September 27, 2013 at 8:21 PM
Anonymous said...: really - did you just watch that on a youtube video - or you have first hand scientific knowledge of said tin hat benefits?; September 27, 2013 at 10:27 PM
Anonymous said...: Anonymous September 27, 2013 at 10:27 PM
"really - did you just watch that on a youtube video - or you have first hand scientific knowledge of said tin hat benefits?"

Are you admitting you are subjected to mind controlling rays? It seems so.

Do you have first hand knowledge that Duke is as evil as you say. If you do, why do you not provide factual evidence?; September 28, 2013 at 4:35 AM
Anonymous said...: Anonymous September 27, 2013 at 6:54 PM..

how's this one:

blah blah blah

"i'm a thinkin bout gettn really creative with my blahs at some point
... something to think about"

How would you know since you are incapable of thinking.; September 28, 2013 at 4:37 AM
Anonymous said...: really stupid evil duke troll

here: suck on this bone for awhile

picture the evil:

bill gates 'employing' duke to lead the way in eliminating 10 - 15 % of the population with 'great' vaccines and health services.

this enables one of the head of duke's bill gates supported global universal health (& co.) to BE the evil (as it does most of duke nowadays) - and he leads THE WAY by adopting two male children of color from (africa?) to be his personal pedophilic slaves. He is so emboldened by the EVIL bill gates backed and CIA driven duke (which it is) that he often shares informative videos documenting his brand of parenting with any strange man on the internet and encourages them to join him in his parenting evil ways using his adopted sons as research trial monkeys. THAT is duke

nuff said; September 28, 2013 at 8:33 AM
Anonymous said...: so if you don't think duke wouldn't murder Mr. Daye in order to frame Ms. Mangum - ponder this:

why is duke assisting bill gates in depopulating the earth by 800 million people (give or take a few million here and there) in the guise of universal health services? Do you see them blinking any - no - so - without blinking an eye - i must say.; September 28, 2013 at 8:51 AM
Nifong Supporter said...: Anonymous said...
SIDNEY HARR:

What is really frightening for Crystal. Your belief that she should trust you for legal advice instead of a trained lawyer who understands the criminal justice system.

Surely I do not understand the criminal justice system better than trained lawyers who have represented Crystal, but she should place her trust me over the lawyers because I have her best interests at heart. Their priorities are to protect the medical examiner and Duke University Hospital.; September 28, 2013 at 12:45 PM
Nifong Supporter said...: Anonymous said...
Dr. Harr, when Duke is involved - anyone and everyone is expendable. The only thing in their mind NOT expendable is the prestige of the name of DUKE - as that IS their main money maker.

I believe that your comment is not far off the mark. Duke University's appetite for money, power, and total domination seems to be insatiable.; September 28, 2013 at 12:48 PM
Anonymous said...: Anonymous September 28, 2013 at 8:33 AM

really stupid evil duke troll

here: suck on this bone for awhile

picture the evil:

bill gates 'employing' duke to lead the way in eliminating 10 - 15 % of the population with 'great' vaccines and health services.

this enables one of the head of duke's bill gates supported global universal health (& co.) to BE the evil (as it does most of duke nowadays) - and he leads THE WAY by adopting two male children of color from (africa?) to be his personal pedophilic slaves. He is so emboldened by the EVIL bill gates backed and CIA driven duke (which it is) that he often shares informative videos documenting his brand of parenting with any strange man on the internet and encourages them to join him in his parenting evil ways using his adopted sons as research trial monkeys. THAT is duke

nuff said

More impotent name calling.

More fabrication.; September 28, 2013 at 2:34 PM
Anonymous said...: Anonymous September 28, 2013 at 8:51 AM

"so if you don't think duke wouldn't murder Mr. Daye in order to frame Ms. Mangum - ponder this:

why is duke assisting bill gates in depopulating the earth by 800 million people (give or take a few million here and there) in the guise of universal health services? Do you see them blinking any - no - so - without blinking an eye - i must say.

No Duke isn't. Your belief in the trash science about vaccines is ridiculous.; September 28, 2013 at 2:37 PM
Anonymous said...: SIDNEY HARR:

"Surely I do not understand the criminal justice system better than trained lawyers who have represented Crystal"

You don't understand thee legal system at all.

"but she should place her trust me over the lawyers because I have her best interests at heart."

No you don't.Your interest is in only attracting attention to yourself.

"Their priorities are to protect the medical examiner and Duke University Hospital."

Neither Duke nor Dr. Nichols need to be protected from anything-except maybe your unwarranted presumption of guilt.; September 28, 2013 at 2:41 PM
Anonymous said...: SIDNEY HARR:

"I believe that your comment is not far off the mark. Duke University's appetite for money, power, and total domination seems to be insatiable."

What you believe is irrelevant, considering all the deluded megalomaniacal beliefs you hold, e.g. that anyone believes you are qualified to tell whether or not an autopsy report is fraudulent.; September 28, 2013 at 2:44 PM
Anonymous said...: actually it was bill gates who recommends using vaccines and health services to reduce the population by 10 - 15 percent or roughly 800 million people - not me - evil duke troll

why don't you go offer to be a duke guini pig if your so up on vaccines and duke's health services - they're ALWAYS recruiting for those - you could get double pay for being an evil duke troll and a stupid duke guini pig - oh joy - think of the lives you could save by donating yourself to finding just the right vaccines to generously assist in achieving this 'great' and evil plan; September 28, 2013 at 3:01 PM
Anonymous said...: SIDNEY HARR:

I have offten wondered why you do not consult with Obi WanKenobi if you are so concerned about Jedi mind tricks. You might say Obi Wan does not exist. But you often consult with Lt.Columbo and Perry Mason, even though they don't exist.; September 28, 2013 at 3:17 PM
Anonymous said...: Anonymous September 28, 2013 at 3:01 PM

Check this out, another witness to Duke's evil:

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/entertainment/2013/09/giuliana-rancic-dukes-been-my-salvation-after-breast-cancer/; September 28, 2013 at 3:21 PM
Anonymous said...: Anonymous September 28, 2013 at 3:01 PM:

Have you ever gotten involved in paycho ceramics. That is an activity specifically for crack pots.; September 28, 2013 at 4:08 PM
A Lawyer said...: actually it was bill gates who recommends using vaccines and health services to reduce the population by 10 - 15 percent or roughly 800 million people - not me - evil duke troll

I've never heard that. Can you tell me where to learn more about that?; September 28, 2013 at 6:32 PM
Anonymous said...: i gave the name of the youtube video in which you could see him say that somewhere in this specific flog comments ... you will have to find it somewhere sandwiched between me fighting off the evil duke trolls and ya'll cutting down Dr. Harr, Ms. Mangum, etc. (as usual); September 28, 2013 at 7:39 PM
Anonymous said...: Anonymous September 28, 2013 at 7:39 PM

"i gave the name of the youtube video in which you could see him say that somewhere in this specific flog comments ... you will have to find it somewhere sandwiched between me fighting off the evil duke trolls and ya'll cutting down Dr. Harr, Ms. Mangum, etc. (as usual)"

You refuse to document(again).

There are no evil Duke trolls to fight off. Your problems arise from your own delusions.

Sidney's and Crystal's problems arise from their own sociopathic behacviors.; September 29, 2013 at 3:48 AM
Anonymous said...: Anonymous September 28, 2013 at 7:39 PM:

Maybe you should stop drinking water. Water is invariably fatal. How do I know. Thus far, every one who has died has at one point drank water.

So watch out the next time you are thirsty.; September 29, 2013 at 4:37 AM
Anonymous said...: Stay thirsty my friends.; September 29, 2013 at 5:05 AM
Anonymous said...: SIDNEY HARR:

" EDP (Estimated Date of Post) next flog: Tuesday, October 1, 2013
Next Post begins the series: 'When Justice and the Law collide'"

Which might mean SIDNEY will publish another screed about why felon Shan Carter, who provoked a conflict with another felon in which, while committing more felonies, Shan Carter killed the felon and an innocent bystander, an 8 year old boy, should have been given a pass rather than convicted of felony murder.; September 29, 2013 at 12:15 PM
Anonymous said...: Break, I love your sarcasm. Hilarious.; September 29, 2013 at 6:47 PM
A Lawyer said...: Which might mean SIDNEY will publish another screed about why felon Shan Carter, who provoked a conflict with another felon in which, while committing more felonies, Shan Carter killed the felon and an innocent bystander, an 8 year old boy, should have been given a pass rather than convicted of felony murder.

I don't know. We may get a screed about how, the law of res judicata notwithstanding, Dr. Harr should be allowed to keep suing Duke over and over for the same incident, until someday he wins.; September 29, 2013 at 8:00 PM
Anonymous said...: The point is...... sooner or later, Mangum will be held accountable, one way or the other, for killing Reginald Daye. I don't give a damn what the lunatic Harr says. He is not in charge, thank god.
Either she goes to trial or takes a plea. Either she goes free or spend times in prison.
Will the charges be dropped? No.
Will Duke be on trial for murdering Daye? No.
Will Harr continue his dementia-fused racist bullshit? Yes
Will Victoria Peterson continue to disgrace herself? Yes
Will Mangum turn her life around, stop pole vaulting, act like a grownup and take responsibility for her own behavior? Who the hell knows.....
Are we all sick of hearing her whines? Yes!!!; September 30, 2013 at 4:28 AM
Nifong Supporter said...: Anonymous said...
SIDNEY HARR:

" EDP (Estimated Date of Post) next flog: Tuesday, October 1, 2013
Next Post begins the series: 'When Justice and the Law collide'"

Which might mean SIDNEY will publish another screed about why felon Shan Carter, who provoked a conflict with another felon in which, while committing more felonies, Shan Carter killed the felon and an innocent bystander, an 8 year old boy, should have been given a pass rather than convicted of felony murder.

WRONG-0! The upcoming flog deals with Duke's discrimination against me, my lawsuit against Duke, and contains briefs filed by both sides.

Nice guess, though.; September 30, 2013 at 6:52 AM
A Lawyer said...: Nice guess, though.

Mine was spot-on, it appears.; September 30, 2013 at 6:57 AM
Nifong Supporter said...: Anonymous said...
The point is...... sooner or later, Mangum will be held accountable, one way or the other, for killing Reginald Daye. I don't give a damn what the lunatic Harr says. He is not in charge, thank god.
Either she goes to trial or takes a plea. Either she goes free or spend times in prison.
Will the charges be dropped? No.
Will Duke be on trial for murdering Daye? No.
Will Harr continue his dementia-fused racist bullshit? Yes
Will Victoria Peterson continue to disgrace herself? Yes
Will Mangum turn her life around, stop pole vaulting, act like a grownup and take responsibility for her own behavior? Who the hell knows.....
Are we all sick of hearing her whines? Yes!!!

Sorry, but your little bubble is about to be burst. First, there will be no trial... and if Mangum is smart, she will refuse any plea deal that the prosecution will throw at her and her attorneys will try to convince her to accept.

I will make the same offer to you as I did to Walt... e-mail me your name and address and after the charges are dropped against Mangum I will send you a crying towel. (It will be Duke blue unless you specify another color.); September 30, 2013 at 6:57 AM
Nifong Supporter said...: A Lawyer said...
Which might mean SIDNEY will publish another screed about why felon Shan Carter, who provoked a conflict with another felon in which, while committing more felonies, Shan Carter killed the felon and an innocent bystander, an 8 year old boy, should have been given a pass rather than convicted of felony murder.

I don't know. We may get a screed about how, the law of res judicata notwithstanding, Dr. Harr should be allowed to keep suing Duke over and over for the same incident, until someday he wins.

Hey, A Lawyer.

I'd give you a cigar, if I could. You're pretty much correct in your prediction. Lots of stuff is included, but it mainly deals with the briefs filed by both sides.; September 30, 2013 at 7:01 AM
Nifong Supporter said...: Anonymous said...
Anonymous September 28, 2013 at 3:01 PM:

Have you ever gotten involved in paycho ceramics. That is an activity specifically for crack pots.

"Psycho ceramics... crack pots..." Very clever.; September 30, 2013 at 7:03 AM
Nifong Supporter said...: Anonymous said...
SIDNEY HARR:

I have offten wondered why you do not consult with Obi WanKenobi if you are so concerned about Jedi mind tricks. You might say Obi Wan does not exist. But you often consult with Lt.Columbo and Perry Mason, even though they don't exist.

Obi Wan Kenobi is a fictional character, therefore I cannot consult with him. Furthermore, I do not have consultations with Lieutenant Columbo or Perry Mason for the same reason. (Maybe you meant a different verb than consult?) More elucidation is required.; September 30, 2013 at 7:07 AM
Nifong Supporter said...: Anonymous said...
SIDNEY HARR:

"Surely I do not understand the criminal justice system better than trained lawyers who have represented Crystal"

You don't understand thee legal system at all.

"but she should place her trust me over the lawyers because I have her best interests at heart."

No you don't.Your interest is in only attracting attention to yourself.

"Their priorities are to protect the medical examiner and Duke University Hospital."

Neither Duke nor Dr. Nichols need to be protected from anything-except maybe your unwarranted presumption of guilt.

Your statements lack reason. Specifically the one accusing me of seeking attention. Doesn't make sense... Why should I seek attention? If justice were being served, I would be quietly going about my life. However, since no one else is speaking up or taking action to protect the justice system for all Tar Heelians, the job has been thrust upon me... I am the Rectifier.; September 30, 2013 at 7:12 AM
Anonymous said...: Dr. Harr,

Do you know how someone would go about asking the government to investigate and curtail nefarious actions that may or may not be in the plans or actions of the Gates / Duke Global Health Initiative vaccine, health services depopulation program that Bill Gates mentions in his talk about CO2 levels and zero sum equations in several youtube videos currently available including one titled:

"FOX News Agenda 21 The UN NWO Want US Rounded Up"

youtube video around 12:00 on view dial.

Where would concerned citizens write to or file a complaint with to have this Global Health Intiative counterbalanced for the sake of NOT depopulating the earth if need be?

Do you think asking the government to investigate would produce any results in stopping any nefarious actions and plans as stated by Bill Gates to be part of his agenda for funding vaccines and health services and having duke lead the way?; September 30, 2013 at 7:47 AM
Anonymous said...: SIDNEY HARR:

"WRONG-0! The upcoming flog deals with Duke's discrimination against me, my lawsuit against Duke, and contains briefs filed by both sides.

Nice guess, though."

I guess a lawyer got it right.

Basically what you have said is that your screed will be about nothing.; September 30, 2013 at 7:56 AM
Anonymous said...: SIDNEY HARR:

"Hey, A Lawyer.

I'd give you a cigar, if I could. You're pretty much correct in your prediction. Lots of stuff is included, but it mainly deals with the briefs filed by both sides."

I say again your upcoming screed will be about nothing.; September 30, 2013 at 7:57 AM
Anonymous said...: SIDNEY HARR:

"Obi Wan Kenobi is a fictional character, therefore I cannot consult with him. Furthermore, I do not have consultations with Lieutenant Columbo or Perry Mason for the same reason. (Maybe you meant a different verb than consult?) More elucidation is required."

Your carpetbagger jihad is as real as Obi Wan Kenobi, as Columbo, as Perry Mason and as Jedi mind tricks. Maybe that is why you cite non existent people as your authorities.

Do you require elucidation. Obviously you do. It does not work on you because you deny reality.; September 30, 2013 at 8:00 AM
Anonymous said...: SIDNEY HARR:

"Your statements lack reason."

Yes they do.Uou claim they do not because you have broken with reality.

"Specifically the one accusing me of seeking attention. Doesn't make sense... Why should I seek attention?"

You are a narcissist.

"If justice were being served, I would be quietly going about my life."

Which is an admission that you are divorced from reality. Justice is being served, as it was when corrupt DA NIFONG was disbarred and convicted of criminal contempt for his obvious violations of legal ethics and prosecutorial ethics.

"However, since no one else is speaking up or taking action to protect the justice system for all Tar Heelians, the job has been thrust upon me... I am the Rectifier."

Bullshit. An example of what you call injustice is not giving Shan Carter a pass for felony murder. Attempted conversion of justice to injustice is anything but rectification.; September 30, 2013 at 8:06 AM
Anonymous said...: Anonymous September 30, 2013 at 7:47 AM

"Dr. Harr,"

You mean SIDNEY the untrained incompetent physician.

"Do you know how someone would go about asking the government to investigate and curtail nefarious actions that may or may not be in the plans or actions of the Gates / Duke Global Health Initiative vaccine, health services depopulation program that Bill Gates mentions in his talk about CO2 levels and zero sum equations in several youtube videos currently available including one titled:

"FOX News Agenda 21 The UN NWO Want US Rounded Up"

youtube video around 12:00 on view dial.

Where would concerned citizens write to or file a complaint with to have this Global Health Intiative counterbalanced for the sake of NOT depopulating the earth if need be?

Do you think asking the government to investigate would produce any results in stopping any nefarious actions and plans as stated by Bill Gates to be part of his agenda for funding vaccines and health services and having duke lead the way?"

The answer to all your questions is no. The things you talk about do not exist. So stop worrying about them. You'll sleep more restfully.; September 30, 2013 at 8:09 AM
Anonymous said...: tell you what, sidney harr, IF ALL charges are DROPPED against Mangum, and she walks free, no trial, no plea deal, no time served deal, ....just a big old fat, no charge, no harm, no foul announcement..........I WILL eat a big old plate full of black crow.
And, if she DOES go to trial, or, DOES accept a plea deal of any kind, I will expect you to publicly stand in front of the court house steps and eat a big old plate full of stupidity crow; September 30, 2013 at 8:40 AM
Anonymous said...: Sidney would have us accept that the Daye family would have no say in the decision to remove life support....that Daye would just be kept alive, indefinitely, for the convenience of his attacker....endlessly, and of course, at the expense of...who? Just vegetating away in a nursing home somewhere while the attacker wiggles and squirms and seeks to avoid justice.....and the family has no control. You really are an asshat, sidney,....a world class asshat; September 30, 2013 at 8:42 AM
Anonymous said...: yeah - having an evil duke troll tell me that what i just watched on the youtube video is not real and that duke is not a major player in that global health initiative (even tho we all know you probably haven't even watched it yet and wouldn't admit to dukes role even if you were dying from the vaccines and health services yourself) - makes all of US feel better and able to sleep with precision comfort - cuz YOU said so - NOT!

so ... is that BECAUSE duke says - or just you?; September 30, 2013 at 8:43 AM
Anonymous said...: Anonymous September 30, 2013 at 8:43 AM

"yeah - having an evil duke troll tell me that what i just watched on the youtube video is not real and that duke is not a major player in that global health initiative (even tho we all know you probably haven't even watched it yet and wouldn't admit to dukes role even if you were dying from the vaccines and health services yourself) - makes all of US feel better and able to sleep with precision comfort - cuz YOU said so - NOT!

so ... is that BECAUSE duke says - or just you?"

There is no such thing as an evil Duke troll. Just crazy people who believe in them.; September 30, 2013 at 9:10 AM
Anonymous said...: it's the crazaes vs. the crazy evil duke trolls - don't you know - don't forget - and keep it straight

you and your gang - crazy evil duke trolls

us - crazaes; September 30, 2013 at 9:47 AM
Anonymous said...: Anonymous September 30, 2013 at 9:47 AM

"it's the crazaes vs. the crazy evil duke trolls - don't you know - don't forget - and keep it straight

you and your gang - crazy evil duke trolls

us - crazaes"

There is no such thing as an evil Duke Troll. Ergo, it is the crazies versus nothing. And the crazies are losing.; September 30, 2013 at 10:18 AM
Anonymous said...: ...Sidney says....
"Sorry, but your little bubble is about to be burst. First, there will be no trial... and if Mangum is smart, she will refuse any plea deal that the prosecution will throw at her and her attorneys will try to convince her to accept.

I will make the same offer to you as I did to Walt... e-mail me your name and address and after the charges are dropped against Mangum I will send you a crying towel. (It will be Duke blue unless you specify another color.)"

Tell you what, loser, you publish your entire CV, full work experience, a list of all the frivolous law suits you've filed (and lost), your criminal record...with direct source verification.........so that we can all decide what kind of a lunatic you really are..........and then we will talk about publishing email addresses.; September 30, 2013 at 12:35 PM
Anonymous said...: I would not give sidney harr my email address or any other personal information if he had a check for a million dollars that he wanted to give to me! This nutjob, a racist lawsuit filing failed doctor-lawyer wannabe, would probably walk up to my door, see that I am white when I answer the door, accidentially-on-purpose trip over my front porch steps, and sue me for pain and suffering.....because I am part of the evil white oppressor conspiracy, deliberating trying to injure black people.
Racist losers like harr and jesse and al and ken edwards all have the same sorry attitudes in common......in particular, no ownership and accountability for their own behavior....and blaming white people for everything from hang nails to world hunger.
Spare me........; October 1, 2013 at 5:21 AM
Anonymous said...: Hey Walt, if Mangum does NOT go the route of claiming self defense, what are her options? She can't very well claim "not guilty", as in, I didn't stab Daye. She has admitted it. So, does it boil down to self defense or a plea? How about temporary insanity? What, if any, choices does she actually have?; October 1, 2013 at 6:24 AM
Anonymous said...: Hoooray, no-conscious cline has lost her appeal! Good. Read the full opinion. It's available online.
Now for the NC Bar hearing....; October 1, 2013 at 6:40 AM
Nifong Supporter said...: Anonymous said...
Sidney would have us accept that the Daye family would have no say in the decision to remove life support....that Daye would just be kept alive, indefinitely, for the convenience of his attacker....endlessly, and of course, at the expense of...who? Just vegetating away in a nursing home somewhere while the attacker wiggles and squirms and seeks to avoid justice.....and the family has no control. You really are an asshat, sidney,....a world class asshat

Of course Daye's family would have a say in whether or not Reginald was removed from life support. That's so obvious, I assumed that everyone took it for granted. I'm sure that they were convinced that it his removal from life support was best.

The only reason Joshua Wrenn's family refused to allow his removal from life support is because the family lawyer advised them not to in order to preserve their wrongful death claims. Unexpectedly and miraculously, Wrenn came out of his coma.; October 1, 2013 at 7:19 AM
Nifong Supporter said...: Anonymous said...
...Sidney says....
"Sorry, but your little bubble is about to be burst. First, there will be no trial... and if Mangum is smart, she will refuse any plea deal that the prosecution will throw at her and her attorneys will try to convince her to accept.

I will make the same offer to you as I did to Walt... e-mail me your name and address and after the charges are dropped against Mangum I will send you a crying towel. (It will be Duke blue unless you specify another color.)"

Tell you what, loser, you publish your entire CV, full work experience, a list of all the frivolous law suits you've filed (and lost), your criminal record...with direct source verification.........so that we can all decide what kind of a lunatic you really are..........and then we will talk about publishing email addresses.

The only reason I wanted your e-mail address was in order to get a mailing address where I could send you a crying towel when charges against Mangum are dropped.; October 1, 2013 at 7:22 AM
Anonymous said...: Anonymous October 1, 2013 at 6:40 AM

Hoooray, no-conscious cline has lost her appeal! Good. Read the full opinion. It's available online.
Now for the NC Bar hearing...."

Here is a link:

http://www.bizjournals.com/triangle/news/2013/10/01/removal-of-former-durham-da-tracey.html; October 1, 2013 at 7:42 AM
Anonymous said...: You do NOT know the reason(s) the Wrenn family made ANY decision about Joshua Wrenn. You are making assumptions, yet again. His case has absolutely ZERO to do with what happened with Daye. Once again you run down rat holes, trying to make arguments that are ridiculously transparent in their false racist interpretations.
keep your crying towels for yourself.....and continue your racist boohooing....; October 1, 2013 at 7:46 AM
Anonymous said...: SIDNEY HARR:

"Of course Daye's family would have a say in whether or not Reginald was removed from life support. That's so obvious, I assumed that everyone took it for granted. I'm sure that they were convinced that it his removal from life support was best."

You say one thing but do another. De facto you do argue that Reginald Daye should have been kept on life support indefinitely so Crystal could avoid liability for his death.

"The only reason Joshua Wrenn's family refused to allow his removal from life support is because the family lawyer advised them not to in order to preserve their wrongful death claims. Unexpectedly and miraculously, Wrenn came out of his coma."

the words "unexpectedly" and "miraculously" say lots that Reginald Daye's chance of recovery was infinitesimal. To put it another way, the possibility he would recover was infinitely greater than the possibility he would recover.; October 1, 2013 at 7:48 AM
Anonymous said...: SIDNEY HARR:

"The only reason I wanted your e-mail address was in order to get a mailing address where I could send you a crying towel when charges against Mangum are dropped."

Since it is infinitely more likely that the charges will not be dropped, it is infinitely more likely you wanted the email address for some other raeson, probably nefarious considering your malignant attitude against people who disagree with you.; October 1, 2013 at 7:51 AM
Anonymous said...: Interesting......most people are not aware that Mangum was RE-assrested for violating the terms of her child visitation order after she bonded out in the Walker incident. She had been put on visitation restrictions, which she violated, and her violations landed her back in jail. It is still a mystery why she got custody of her three children....back....after she was convicted of child abuse. She had lost custody in 2009. And, of course, she promptly got into another scrape....this time killing Daye....and thank goodness, the judge who said she was a "good mother" lost his spot on the bench.
Of all the parties to the Mangum debacle, I feel the most sorrow for the three innocent children she brought into the world. Let's hope they are getting stable care where they are....; October 1, 2013 at 8:27 AM
Walt said...: Anonymous at 6:24 AM wrote: "Hey Walt, if Mangum does NOT go the route of claiming self defense, what are her options?"

Her only real defense amounts to plea bargaining with the jury. The state has filed Murder I, Theft of a Chose in Action, a felony murder, and Assault charges. The assault charge is complicated because it's a misdemeanor that kicks up to a felony under the misdemeanor manslaughter rule. The theft of a chose in action is also complicated as they want it to kick up to Murder I under the felony murder rule. Her defense has to be be that the state cannot and will not prove Murder I - intentional. So the jury should acquit on that charge. (I think she will be successful on that.)

Next the Theft of a Chose in Action charge. Her defense will be, she gave the cashier's checks back when asked. At best a technical violation and she lacked criminal intent. (Again, I think she prevails. But, it doesn't matter, assault with a deadly weapon is sufficient for the felony murder rule if the jury believes she acted intentionally.

Finally, she has the battery charge. Her defense is lack of intent, it's just a misdemeanor. (I think this is the charge the jury will convict on.) If they do, the conviction automatically becomes Manslaughter II under the misdemeanor manslaughter rule. This is the charge where she can work around a little bit of self defense without actually saying she acted intentionally. Of course she doesn't get the instruction, but she gets to argue to the jury that Daye was angry, threatening her, drunk, mean and she just didn't know what she was doing or how the steak knife got in her hand.

Walt-in-Durham

She can't very well claim "not guilty", as in, I didn't stab Daye. She has admitted it. So, does it boil down to self defense or a plea? How about temporary insanity? What, if any, choices does she actually have?

October 1, 2013 at 6:24 AM; October 1, 2013 at 11:27 AM
Anonymous said...: Walt,

How do you know what she has to defend against if you haven't seen the evidence against her yet?

When does the prosecutions evidence to prove her guilty become available to the public?

When does it become fully available to Ms. Mangum so she can adequately prepare a defense?; October 1, 2013 at 11:43 AM
Anonymous said...: thanks, Walt. Interesting....she could very likely get time served or time served with minimal additive months. sounds like a plea...if her attorney can make it happen. Hard to believe he would let her get on the stand....; October 1, 2013 at 11:50 AM
Anonymous said...: poster, 11.43, call sidney harr....I am sure he will sit down with you and review the evidence.
good lord......dumb and dumber..; October 1, 2013 at 11:51 AM
Walt said...: Anonymous at 11:43 AM wrote: "Walt,

How do you know what she has to defend against if you haven't seen the evidence against her yet?"

RTF. Sid posted the police reports including witness statements. (Those are public record, BTW, so don't beat up on Sid for posting those.) Sid also posted the Medical Exam, which is not public record. That breached the attorney client confidentiality, but it's out there, so I read it. You should too. The charges are public record and have been published in the Herald Sun as well as being available by wandering into the Clerk's office and asking. Also, Sid has filed a number of frivolous motions where he makes extensive reference to the charges. Again, RTF.

"When does the prosecutions evidence to prove her guilty become available to the public?"

It has been for years and years.

"When does it become fully available to Ms. Mangum so she can adequately prepare a defense?"

She's had it for years. I suspect that's how Sid got it.

Walt-in-Durham; October 1, 2013 at 12:28 PM
Anonymous said...: Sidney harr violated all kinds of confidentiality and attorney client privilege when he wrongly posted evidence on this web site. Additionally, harr has run his mouth endlessly about evidence.....once again screwing Mangum.
poster, the prosecution does not publish evidence publicly. good lord, are you really that uninformed? the evidence will come out at trial. I think most of us are bright enough to figure out that Walt is giving an an opinion, generally........and with his legal experience in mind, as he comments about likely scenarios.
Take your meds and try hard to understand....; October 1, 2013 at 12:30 PM
Anonymous said...: My apology, walt.......with regard to the prosecution publishing evidence. I mean to say that the prosecution has no obligation, as such, to publish its evidence. What gets out, gets out....but my assumption is that evidence is made available to the defense and is presented at trial. Otherwise, unless you are sidney harr and you violate attorney client privilege, the state doesn't have a web site.......where you can go, as a lay person, and see their evidence.
my apology for mis-speaking...; October 1, 2013 at 12:34 PM
Walt said...: Anonymous at wrote: "thanks, Walt. Interesting....she could very likely get time served or time served with minimal additive months. sounds like a plea...if her attorney can make it happen."

Yeah, I suspect the state will or already has, offered a plea to the lowest class of felony with a little extra time. That's all she is likely to get unless the jury really takes a dislike to her.

"Hard to believe he would let her get on the stand...."

Her lawyer in the Walker case wouldn't let her on the stand. That was wise. I don't think anyone else will let her on the stand if they don't absolutely have to. And, assuming Sid is right when he says she won't say she acted intentionally, they don't absolutely have to put her on the stand.

Walt-in-Durham; October 1, 2013 at 12:36 PM
Walt said...: Anonymous at 12:34 PM wrote: " My apology, walt" Apology accepted.

"...but my assumption is that evidence is made available to the defense and is presented at trial."

Under North Carolina's open file discovery statute, the State has an obligation to disclose all evidence to opposing counsel. One problem with the statute is it does not specify a time. Sid would have us believe if the disclosure takes place one second before trial then the statute is met. However, common law says much sooner. In any case, the discovery has been out for years.

"....where you can go, as a lay person, and see their evidence."

Clerk's Office if the discovery is in the case file. You can always ask the police for police reports which, in this case, are remarkably thorough. Otherwise, the public gets to see the evidence when the state presents it at trial. Strictly speaking, other than police reports, the public is not entitled to either side's discovery. However, it's not a state secret either.

Walt-in-Durham; October 1, 2013 at 12:48 PM
Nifong Supporter said...: Anonymous said...
You do NOT know the reason(s) the Wrenn family made ANY decision about Joshua Wrenn. You are making assumptions, yet again. His case has absolutely ZERO to do with what happened with Daye. Once again you run down rat holes, trying to make arguments that are ridiculously transparent in their false racist interpretations.
keep your crying towels for yourself.....and continue your racist boohooing....

What I know about Joshua Wrenn is not firsthand, but what I read in the newspaper. I know that the article is included in one of my flogs. Look up my flogs which list Wrenn and you might come across the article.

I don't fabricate or make up stuff. What I write or aver is always from a source, if not firsthand itself.; October 1, 2013 at 12:53 PM
Anonymous said...: so

all she has to do is defend against the police reports and witness statements and doctors reports and medical examiners report?

that's all?

time served for what? nothing has been proven - so what did she serve time for?; October 1, 2013 at 12:54 PM
Nifong Supporter said...: Anonymous said...
SIDNEY HARR:

"Of course Daye's family would have a say in whether or not Reginald was removed from life support. That's so obvious, I assumed that everyone took it for granted. I'm sure that they were convinced that it his removal from life support was best."

You say one thing but do another. De facto you do argue that Reginald Daye should have been kept on life support indefinitely so Crystal could avoid liability for his death.

"The only reason Joshua Wrenn's family refused to allow his removal from life support is because the family lawyer advised them not to in order to preserve their wrongful death claims. Unexpectedly and miraculously, Wrenn came out of his coma."

the words "unexpectedly" and "miraculously" say lots that Reginald Daye's chance of recovery was infinitesimal. To put it another way, the possibility he would recover was infinitely greater than the possibility he would recover.

Fact is that doctors are not Gods. The doctors felt Wrenn's chance of awakening were nil, that's why they recommended he be removed from life support. Us mere mortals, even with medical degrees, cannot with absolute certainty determine the course of someone in a comatose state.

Another fact is that had Wrenn been removed from life support after one week, he never would have regained consciousness.; October 1, 2013 at 12:57 PM
Nifong Supporter said...: Anonymous said...
SIDNEY HARR:

"The only reason I wanted your e-mail address was in order to get a mailing address where I could send you a crying towel when charges against Mangum are dropped."

Since it is infinitely more likely that the charges will not be dropped, it is infinitely more likely you wanted the email address for some other raeson, probably nefarious considering your malignant attitude against people who disagree with you.

Tell you what... send me your e-mail address after charges against Mangum are dropped and then I'll get a mailing address to send your crying towel.; October 1, 2013 at 1:00 PM
Nifong Supporter said...: Walt said...
Anonymous at 6:24 AM wrote: "Hey Walt, if Mangum does NOT go the route of claiming self defense, what are her options?"

Her only real defense amounts to plea bargaining with the jury. The state has filed Murder I, Theft of a Chose in Action, a felony murder, and Assault charges. The assault charge is complicated because it's a misdemeanor that kicks up to a felony under the misdemeanor manslaughter rule. The theft of a chose in action is also complicated as they want it to kick up to Murder I under the felony murder rule. Her defense has to be be that the state cannot and will not prove Murder I - intentional. So the jury should acquit on that charge. (I think she will be successful on that.)

Next the Theft of a Chose in Action charge. Her defense will be, she gave the cashier's checks back when asked. At best a technical violation and she lacked criminal intent. (Again, I think she prevails. But, it doesn't matter, assault with a deadly weapon is sufficient for the felony murder rule if the jury believes she acted intentionally.

Finally, she has the battery charge. Her defense is lack of intent, it's just a misdemeanor. (I think this is the charge the jury will convict on.) If they do, the conviction automatically becomes Manslaughter II under the misdemeanor manslaughter rule. This is the charge where she can work around a little bit of self defense without actually saying she acted intentionally. Of course she doesn't get the instruction, but she gets to argue to the jury that Daye was angry, threatening her, drunk, mean and she just didn't know what she was doing or how the steak knife got in her hand.

Walt-in-Durham

Hey, Walt.

Glad that you finally see the light and have come around to acknowledge that the Larceny of Chose in Action charge was trumped up in order to saddle Mangum with first degree murder.

However, I don't see where you get the assault charge and the battery charge. If you'll look at the court records, she has only three case files... one for murder and one each for the two counts of Larceny of chose in action.

What is the case number for the assault or battery charge? I'd like it so that I can look it up in the records at court.; October 1, 2013 at 1:06 PM
Nifong Supporter said...: Anonymous said...
thanks, Walt. Interesting....she could very likely get time served or time served with minimal additive months. sounds like a plea...if her attorney can make it happen. Hard to believe he would let her get on the stand....

Not to worry. Mangum won't have to take the stand because there won't be a trial. Look for the Durham prosecutors to try and pass the case to a special prosecutor (like the James Arthur Johnson case), if they don't outright drop the charges themselves... which is what I believe will happen.; October 1, 2013 at 1:10 PM
Nifong Supporter said...: Walt said...
Anonymous at wrote: "thanks, Walt. Interesting....she could very likely get time served or time served with minimal additive months. sounds like a plea...if her attorney can make it happen."

Yeah, I suspect the state will or already has, offered a plea to the lowest class of felony with a little extra time. That's all she is likely to get unless the jury really takes a dislike to her.

"Hard to believe he would let her get on the stand...."

Her lawyer in the Walker case wouldn't let her on the stand. That was wise. I don't think anyone else will let her on the stand if they don't absolutely have to. And, assuming Sid is right when he says she won't say she acted intentionally, they don't absolutely have to put her on the stand.

Walt-in-Durham

Lest my statements be misconstrued, let me rephrase... Mangum did intentionally stab Daye, but it was not her intent to kill him.

Let me know if further elucidation is required.; October 1, 2013 at 1:12 PM
Nifong Supporter said...: Walt said...
Anonymous at wrote: "thanks, Walt. Interesting....she could very likely get time served or time served with minimal additive months. sounds like a plea...if her attorney can make it happen."

Yeah, I suspect the state will or already has, offered a plea to the lowest class of felony with a little extra time. That's all she is likely to get unless the jury really takes a dislike to her.

"Hard to believe he would let her get on the stand...."

Her lawyer in the Walker case wouldn't let her on the stand. That was wise. I don't think anyone else will let her on the stand if they don't absolutely have to. And, assuming Sid is right when he says she won't say she acted intentionally, they don't absolutely have to put her on the stand.

Walt-in-Durham

Walt, I'm in total agreement that the prosecution has probably already offered a plea deal. After all, it's their only hope as they have no case... and to go to trial would possibly bring up problems with the autopsy report and Daye's death even with defense attorneys delicately tiptoe-ing around the subject so as to protect Duke University Hospital and the medical examiner.; October 1, 2013 at 1:16 PM
Anonymous said...: i don't know what she will take a plea for since she didn't kill Mr. Daye and she wasn't 'stealing' the rent checks since Mr. Daye gave them to her to pay the rent the next business day - and there is NO assault charge - since that was upgraded to murder since that whole Mr. Daye dying at duke thing JUST HAD TO come into play (of course - being as IT IS duke wonderland with durham thrown into duke's wonderful mix ... as usual) - and duke killed Mr. Daye - not Ms. Mangum (of course - we are talking duke/durham wonderland here afterall) - so really - the trial becomes about Duke and Durham/NC judicial system - once again. has nothing at all to do with Ms. Mangum or Mr. Daye - just lovely ol' duke/durham land.

wonder when the whole WE ARE DUKE DEVIL GODS thing is going to wear off - if ever; October 1, 2013 at 1:45 PM
Anonymous said...: What are the specific procedures for requesting in writing full disclosure of conflict of interests, bias, or others factors that would call in question the non-bias participation in a specific case of the:

a. DA

b. Public Defender

c. Judge

d. lawyer

e. witness

f. cop (etc.)

g. potential jury member

h. appeals court judges; October 1, 2013 at 2:08 PM
kenhyderal said...: Keeping a mother away from her children for no reason other then spite amounts to cruel and unusual punishment. After the Walker incident North Carolina Child Protective Services did a thorough assessment and like Judge Jones concluded, not a surprise to anyone who actually knows Crystal, that she was a good mother. Those of you here who buy the characterization of her disseminated by the "yellow press" and by the slanderous and hateful blog Duke Lacrosse Liestoppers, should question the motive of this ongoing snow-job they do on Crystal. It made it impossible for her to find rental accommodation for her and her children. That forced her into accepting Daye's offer to share his place with her.; October 1, 2013 at 2:42 PM
Anonymous said...: You have to consider the fact that most of society is still in the dark ages (thanks in A VERY LARGE PART to duke) about mental health issues.

Mental health issues are not well understood by most - even most at duke - even tho duke is one of the major leaders in mental health policy and procedures in USA and on world stage (or at least they were/are duke devil gods in their own eyes / leaders wannabees - there is a difference between the two - leaders and duke devil gods leader wannabees).

The harm done to Ms. Mangum and her family in the realm of mental and emotional abuse that occured/occurs on an epic malicious and intentional level because of duke goes way over the top of anything that would be considered reasonable. Duke should be held accountable for that - even to the general public - for having to witness the malicious outright emotional, mental, and psychological abuse of Ms. Mangum - her family - and all whom may be prejudiced or discriminated against because of this bias held against her by so many because of duke and the issues magnified by and because of duke in these cases.; October 1, 2013 at 3:15 PM
Walt said...: Sid wrote: "Glad that you finally see the light and have come around to acknowledge that the Larceny of Chose in Action charge was trumped up in order to saddle Mangum with first degree murder."

I was just presenting her defense. The state doesn't need the theft conviction for Murder I. I don't think they'll get a conviction, but they do have probable cause to support the charge. And if everything goes wrong for Crystal, she could get convicted. The whole I took them but gave them back defense is not the world's strongest.

"What is the case number for the assault or battery charge? I'd like it so that I can look it up in the records at court."

Lesser included offense. I would have thought a great legal mind would have grasped that concept.

"Mangum did intentionally stab Daye, but it was not her intent to kill him."

That's not what you wrote earlier.

"[A plea bargain is "their only hope as they have no case... and to go to trial would possibly bring up problems with the autopsy report and Daye's death even with defense attorneys delicately tiptoe-ing around the subject so as to protect Duke University Hospital and the medical examiner."

Not without any evidence to back up that theory. And right now, thanks to your breach of confidentiality, we know the defense has no evidence of that. Further, any effort now by the defense to bring up evidence of a problem with the autopsy will get undermined by the defense' own expert. With friends like Sid, Crystal doesn't really need any enemies.

Walt-in-Durham; October 1, 2013 at 3:31 PM
Anonymous said...: SIDNEY HARR:

"Fact is that doctors are not Gods. The doctors felt Wrenn's chance of awakening were nil, that's why they recommended he be removed from life support. Us mere mortals, even with medical degrees, cannot with absolute certainty determine the course of someone in a comatose state."

However, SIDNEY HARR, who is an untrained inexperienced questionably competent mortal with an MD degree believes he can tell that an autopsy report is fraudulent.; October 1, 2013 at 3:38 PM
Anonymous said...: SIDNEY HARR:

"Tell you what... send me your e-mail address after charges against Mangum are dropped and then I'll get a mailing address to send your crying towel."

How about you first explain why you never completed residency training, why you never achieved board certification in any specialty. It is my opinion you could not get accepted into residency.; October 1, 2013 at 3:40 PM
Anonymous said...: Walt,

What makes you so very sure that the autopsy report will be undermined by the defense's own expert?

How does a person request that a medical examiner file a written statement of non conflict of interest or bias in any particular case?

Either the defense's own expert will have to testify on the stand or provide a written report - will they not?

And even then, won't both examiners be required to take the witness stand in order to even have a trial based upon their autopsy findings?; October 1, 2013 at 3:40 PM
Anonymous said...: SIDNEY HARR:

"
Walt, I'm in total agreement that the prosecution has probably already offered a plea deal. After all, it's their only hope as they have no case... and to go to trial would possibly bring up problems with the autopsy report and Daye's death even with defense attorneys delicately tiptoe-ing around the subject so as to protect Duke University Hospital and the medical examiner."

SIDNEY, instead of running your mouth just to hear yourself talk, establish as fact that the autopsy report is fraudulent, that Duke was responsible for Reginald Daye's death. Thus far, in spite of your deluded megalomania, you haven't.; October 1, 2013 at 3:42 PM
Walt said...: Kenhyderal wrote: "It made it impossible for her to find rental accommodation for her and her children. That forced her into accepting Daye's offer to share his place with her."

Her trouble finding a rental couldn't have had anything to do with setting fire to another landlord's property? Nah, that couldn't be it.

Walt-in-Durham; October 1, 2013 at 3:42 PM
Anonymous said...: Anonymous October 1, 2013 at 2:08 PM

What are the specific procedures for requesting in writing full disclosure of conflict of interests, bias, or others factors that would call in question the non-bias participation in a specific case of the:

a. DA

b. Public Defender

c. Judge

d. lawyer

e. witness

f. cop (etc.)

g. potential jury member

h. appeals court judges

First you need to realize that alleging conflict of interest does not establish it. You are assuming there is. That is because you are deluded.; October 1, 2013 at 3:45 PM
Anonymous said...: Anonymous October 1, 2013 at 1:45 PM

"i don't know what she will take a plea for since she didn't kill Mr. Daye"

The medical examiner's report establishes that Crystal did kill Reginald Daye. The opinios of the untrained incompetent physician SIDNEY HARR do not undermine the validity of the autopsy report.

"and she wasn't 'stealing' the rent checks since Mr. Daye gave them to her to pay the rent the next business day - and there is NO assault charge - since that was upgraded to murder since that whole Mr. Daye dying at duke thing JUST HAD TO come into play (of course - being as IT IS duke wonderland with durham thrown into duke's wonderful mix ... as usual) - and duke killed Mr. Daye - not Ms. Mangum (of course - we are talking duke/durham wonderland here afterall)"

No Duke did not.

"- so really - the trial becomes about Duke and Durham/NC judicial system - once again. has nothing at all to do with Ms. Mangum or Mr. Daye - just lovely ol' duke/durham land."

It has to do with whether or not Crystal is criminally responsible for Reginald Daye's death. That he suffered complications from the stab wound Crystal inflicted would not relieve Crystal from criminal responsibility.

"wonder when the whole WE ARE DUKE DEVIL GODS thing is going to wear off - if ever"

There is no "WE ARE DUKE DEVIL GODS thing".; October 1, 2013 at 3:52 PM
Anonymous said...: KENHYDERAL:

More nonsense:

"Keeping a mother away from her children for no reason other then spite amounts to cruel and unusual punishment."

That is not what is happening. No one is trying to spite Crystal.

"After the Walker incident North Carolina Child Protective Services did a thorough assessment and like Judge Jones concluded, not a surprise to anyone who actually knows Crystal, that she was a good mother."

So why did she leave her children and turn tricks? Yes there is evidence she was a prostitute.

"Those of you here who buy the characterization of her disseminated by the "yellow press" and by the slanderous and hateful blog Duke Lacrosse Liestoppers, should question the motive of this ongoing snow-job they do on Crystal."

There was no yellow pres or hateful slanderous blog trying to misrepresent Crystal. Crystal has been sociopathic and a bad actress just about all her life. What has happened to Crystal has been authored by Crystal.

"It made it impossible for her to find rental accommodation for her and her children. That forced her into accepting Daye's offer to share his place with her."

Bullshit. Crystal has caused her own problems. She was not coerced into falsely claiming she was raped, and she could have refused to falsely accuse innocent men of raping her.; October 1, 2013 at 3:57 PM
Anonymous said...: yes there is

you emplify it in your own little wannabe way - don't you know

it will only get worse (on purpose and by design i am sure) now that duke bb is going to be molded in the image of the olympics - so everyone can be brainwashed to hope duke wins in true olympian USA hooray go gettem style

you are blind if you don't see it - or you are 'it'; October 1, 2013 at 3:59 PM
Anonymous said...: Yep, a fit mother.....right. with nine convictions on her record. A lying pole vaulting woman with the morals of a house cat....who set fire to clothing in the presence of her child. ........who has a long nasty history of drug and alcohol use......who exposed her children to her shack-up ways. yep, class act.....; October 1, 2013 at 4:06 PM
Anonymous said...: Anonymous October 1, 2013 at 3:15 PM

"The harm done to Ms. Mangum and her family in the realm of mental and emotional abuse that occured/occurs on an epic malicious and intentional level because of duke goes way over the top of anything that would be considered reasonable."

The only abuse from which Crystal has suffered has been self inflicted abuse.; October 1, 2013 at 4:14 PM
kenhyderal said...: Guess whose version of Crystal the preceding poster has bought into. Don't you find it strange that people, in authority, charged with assessing Crystal and people who actually know her personally come to an entirely different conclusion.; October 1, 2013 at 4:18 PM
Anonymous said...: If you want to start comparing parenting morality between duke and Ms. Mangum based on examples given just recently on this blog - i do not think Ms. Mangum would be considered the more morally or ethically bereft or unfit.

Considering duke's behavior was endorsed by millions/billions of dollars and the leadership ensuing from that morally bereft duke source affected/affects millions/billions of children by default of its alleged mission and questionable goals and illbegotten outcomes - one can only stand amazed at the sheer injustice and hypocricy of Duke itself.; October 1, 2013 at 4:23 PM
Walt said...: Anonymous at 3:40 PM wrote: "Walt,

What makes you so very sure that the autopsy report will be undermined by the defense's own expert?"

That's what Crystal told Sid. And Sid violated her confidence and shared it with the world.

"How does a person request that a medical examiner file a written statement of non conflict of interest or bias in any particular case?"

You don't get to do that. Crystal, or any litigant adverse to the M.E. can. However, there is no conflict in this case.

"Either the defense's own expert will have to testify on the stand or provide a written report - will they not?"

Only if defense counsel is malpracticing Crystal would he call Dr. Roberts to testify.

"And even then, won't both examiners be required to take the witness stand in order to even have a trial based upon their autopsy findings?"

The state is required to call the M.E. to establish death and cause. That they will do. The M.E. will read his report into the record. The defense can cross examine, though they have no issue to raise with the M.E. Their own expert agrees with the autopsy. Whatever cross Meier wants to try is effectively wiped out by Sid's breach of confidentiality. The state will rehabilitate the autopsy with the Defense expert. Thus, I think Meier will wisely avoid much of a fight with the autopsy. That's a loser for the defense and potentially will put the jury in a mood to give her a long sentence.

Walt-in-Durham; October 1, 2013 at 4:26 PM
Anonymous said...: KENHYDERAL:

"Guess whose version of Crystal the preceding poster has bought into. Don't you find it strange that people, in authority, charged with assessing Crystal and people who actually know her personally come to an entirely different conclusion."

The true version. The version that Crystal was beset by a number of people trying to discredit her is the product of KENHYDERAL's imagination. KENHYDERAL can not even establish that Crystal was raped.; October 1, 2013 at 4:33 PM
Anonymous said...: Anonymous October 1, 2013 at 4:23 PM

"If you want to start comparing parenting morality between duke and Ms. Mangum based on examples given just recently on this blog - i do not think Ms. Mangum would be considered the more morally or ethically bereft or unfit."

That is because you are blind.

"Considering duke's behavior was endorsed by millions/billions of dollars and the leadership ensuing from that morally bereft duke source affected/affects millions/billions of children by default of its alleged mission and questionable goals and illbegotten outcomes - one can only stand amazed at the sheer injustice and hypocricy of Duke itself."

Provide documentation.If you can not or will not it suggests you are fabricating.; October 1, 2013 at 4:35 PM
Anonymous said...: Anonymous October 1, 2013 at 3:59 PM

"yes there is

you emplify it in your own little wannabe way - don't you know

it will only get worse (on purpose and by design i am sure) now that duke bb is going to be molded in the image of the olympics - so everyone can be brainwashed to hope duke wins in true olympian USA hooray go gettem style

you are blind if you don't see it - or you are 'it'"

Document your allegations. If you can not or will not, it again suggests you are fabricating.; October 1, 2013 at 4:39 PM
Anonymous said...: i don't think it is appropriate given all the questionable ethics and morality of duke in the eyes of the general public based on duke's documented nefarious actions - that duke take the olympic seal of endorsement as their own through proxy of their bb coach and his duke is he and he is duke endeavors

why does the duke blue devil actually resemble him in many ways?; October 1, 2013 at 4:44 PM
kenhyderal said...: Anonymous said: "KENHYDERAL can not even establish that Crystal was raped"........ For now, all I can go on is Crystal's word, but that will change.; October 1, 2013 at 4:46 PM
kenhyderal said...: Anonymous said: "The true version"............. And, therefore, those charged with examining the evidence as well as her friends and associates are all wrong and you and this anonymous poster, that get your information about her from the gutter press and from blogs who's sole purpose of existence is to discredit Crystal, has got it correct. For example who is the putative liar that Duke Lacrosse Liestoppers is trying to stop.; October 1, 2013 at 4:56 PM
Anonymous said...: Well if the defense expert isn't going to give a written report - then won't she have to take the stand to give the report?

Why wouldn't the defense attorney question the first autopsy report if the defense has already achieved and received the right to have a second autopsy report done because of questions with the first autopsy report?

I think both need to provide in writing their agreement of non conflict of interest or bias in this case. How does the defense request in writing that this be done - and what questions are asked in the written request for written agreement from the M.E.s and the actual written agreements? Is that a standard boilerplate type form - or something unique for every situation? Are there statutes and legal ruls that cover this Walt?

Is this an adventure in find everything wrong with what walt says again Walt? Just wondering so I can understand exactly your point of reference Walt - I'm sure you understand.; October 1, 2013 at 5:29 PM
Walt said...: Anonymous at 5:29 wrote: "Well if the defense expert isn't going to give a written report - then won't she have to take the stand to give the report?"

Not of the defense doesn't call her as a witness. And unless defense counsel wants to convict his client, he won't.

"Why wouldn't the defense attorney question the first autopsy report if the defense has already achieved and received the right to have a second autopsy report done because of questions with the first autopsy report?"

You really need to RTF. Defense expert agrees with the M.E. No problem with the autopsy report. It is accurate. The court gave the defense an expert at state expense because a good defense counsel wanted to investigate the autopsy. Unfortunately for the defense, their expert agrees with the state. So, only an idiot would put her on to bolster the state's case.

"I think both need to provide in writing their agreement of non conflict of interest or bias in this case."

Then you are not serious.

"How does the defense request in writing that this be done - and what questions are asked in the written request for written agreement from the M.E.s and the actual written agreements?"

The cannot force witnesses to agree to anything. That is commonly called witness tampering.

"Is that a standard boilerplate type form - or something unique for every situation? Are there statutes and legal ruls that cover this Walt?"

You are making no sense.

Regardless, let me repeat, with friends like you, Crystal doesn't need any enemies.

Walt-in-Durham; October 1, 2013 at 6:33 PM
Anonymous said...: walt,

where do you get force witness or witness tampering from wanting to know WHAT FORMAT DOES THE DEFENSE WRITE THE REQUEST IN for a written statement of non-conflict of interest or bias from the medical examiners or any other?

aren't standard forms or formats of motions called boilerplates in legal terms?

i do not know Ms. Mangum. I am simply curious about what ya'll are doing here - and want to understand the case and legal issues, etc., and see justice upheld for all fairly, etc.; October 1, 2013 at 7:44 PM
Anonymous said...: because i have a interest in the quality of health services available in this area - as do many - i am sure you understand that i am serious about my responsibility to make the best decisions possible in this areana of life based on clear facts and evidence

it is disturbing to me and others that we cannot trust or respect duke's services at this time due to the many questionable issues they consistently present and represent in the judicial system and the way we see others being treated or not treated by duke; October 1, 2013 at 7:59 PM
Walt said...: Anonymous at 7:44 PM wrote: "walt,

where do you get force witness or witness tampering from wanting to know WHAT FORMAT DOES THE DEFENSE WRITE THE REQUEST IN for a written statement of non-conflict of interest or bias from the medical examiners or any other?"

You are the one seeking to force witnesses into agreements. Not me.

However, because there may be people who are serious and curious, lawyers show a witness's bias by cross examination. It's called a skill. We use it frequently. Because North Carolina does not have a well developed system of discovery in criminal courts, there is no opportunity to depose witnesses before trial or take their deposition upon written questions or even obtain a Rule 26(f) disclosure as there would be in a civil case. In criminal court, in North Carolina bias is shown through cross examination.

The OP is not being serious when he asks about conflict of interest. That has been well covered and anyone who can RTF knows it. To summarize, only one person who has passed through this case has a conflict of interest, Scott Holmes. The instant he discovered his conflict, he did what he is required to do by the law and he disclosed it. He moved for leave to withdraw. The sitting judge did exactly what he should do and granted the motion. Conflict of interest - resolved.

Walt-in-Durham; October 1, 2013 at 8:22 PM
Anonymous said...: Walt,

There is a procedure for asking a judge to complete an affadavite of non-conflict of interest isn't there? If a person finds the need to ask someone of jury weight (like the judge or potential jury members or the Medical Examiner or SBI, Attorney General, etc.) - WHAT IS THE STANDARD FORMAT so that NO appearance of trying to force anybody into a written agreement (of their own conflict of interest) exists. That's why I asked if there was a standard format - as in - how is it NORMALLY accomplished (as I am sure that it must be a normal type procedure with set rules for how to do it right). What are those?; October 2, 2013 at 1:14 AM
Anonymous said...: KENHYDERAL:

"For now, all I can go on is Crystal's word, but that will change."

That is an admission that you are a guilt presuming racist.; October 2, 2013 at 2:24 AM
Anonymous said...: KENHYDERAL:

"And, therefore, those charged with examining the evidence as well as her friends and associates are all wrong"

If, by the people charged with examining the evidence, you mean corrupt DA NIFONG, he did not examine the evidence. He tried to convict in spite of no evidence, and he tried to conceal exculpatory evidence. AG Cooeper's office did examine the evidence and found there was no evidence a rape ever happened.

"and you and this anonymous poster, that get your information about her from the gutter press and from blogs who's sole purpose of existence is to discredit Crystal, has got it correct."

Except there is no gutter press or blogs who are devoted to discrediting Crystal. Crystal did that by herself with the not inconsiderable help of corrupt DA NIFONG.

"For example who is the putative liar that Duke Lacrosse Liestoppers is trying to stop."

Crystal, corrupt DA NIFONG, SIDNEY HARR, the pot bangers, the gang of 88, to name a few.

And you do a pretty intensive job yourself of promulgating lies.; October 2, 2013 at 2:31 AM
Anonymous said...: ah - so the evil duke troll gang is also called the Duke Lacrosse Liestoppers? seriously?

so it is intentional hate-crime mongering on these blogs by them?; October 2, 2013 at 2:45 AM
Anonymous said...: well don't that just dang all

now i'va got me a whoppin tale of the time iza got into one of them dar hog wranglin matches with the duke lacrosse liestopper evil duke troll gang to disscuss bout round the next campfire type event

got it; October 2, 2013 at 3:11 AM
Lance the Supreme Poster of Enlightenment said...: "Hey, Walt.

Glad that you finally see the light and have come around to acknowledge that the Larceny of Chose in Action charge was trumped up in order to saddle Mangum with first degree murder."

Not to put words into Walt's mouth, but I believe this has been his belief the whole time.

The DA's office has a history of over-charging in the hopes of pressuring defendants to accept plea bargains.
This was especially true under DA Tracey Cline. You can read more about that here.; October 2, 2013 at 6:19 AM
Walt said...: Anonymous at 1:14 AM wrote: "Walt,

There is a procedure for asking a judge to complete an affadavite of non-conflict of interest isn't there?"

Judges, are governed by the Code of Judicial Conduct. Canon 3 generally requires judges to act impartially, Canon 3(C) deals with the method of challenging a Judge's impartiality. Only a party to litigation may raise the challenge. Lawyers, as you will obviously be surprised to learn, are trained how to write motions to deal with this and a number of other issues.

"If a person finds the need to ask someone of jury weight..."

Our juries have weight limits? I've seen some very scrawny jurors, is it an upper limit or lower limit?

" - WHAT IS THE STANDARD FORMAT...."

If you are referring to judges, we use a motion. Although frankly, in the rare cases I have seen where a judge cannot act impartially, they have always recused themselves. More frequent is the situation where a D.A. moves to the bench. Jim Hardin comes to mind. He avoided criminal cases for several years after moving to the Superior Court. Our judges generally just avoid situations where their impartiality or even an outright conflict of interest might arise. (Former prosecutors still owe a continuing duty of confidentiality even after they leave office.)

"...That's why I asked if there was a standard format - as in - how is it NORMALLY accomplished (as I am sure that it must be a normal type procedure with set rules for how to do it right)."

Asked and answered. Examination or cross examination of the witness. But, a reminder, there are no conflicts of interest in this case except Holmes. And he discharged his duty quickly and lawfully, as attorneys do.

Walt-in-Durham; October 2, 2013 at 6:25 AM
Walt said...: Lance the Supreme Poster of Enlightenment wrote, correctly I might add: "Not to put words into Walt's mouth, but I believe this has been his belief the whole time."

Two and a half years ago, I wrote that I thought this was a misdemeanor manslaughter case and that Tracey had overcharged it. SOP for her office.

Walt-in-Durham; October 2, 2013 at 6:29 AM
Anonymous said...: Anonymous October 2, 2013 at 2:45 AM.

"ah - so the evil duke troll gang is also called the Duke Lacrosse Liestoppers? seriously?

so it is intentional hate-crime mongering on these blogs by them?"

There is no evil Duke Troll gang, except in your deluded imagination.; October 2, 2013 at 6:38 AM
Anonymous said...: Anonymous October 1, 2013 at 3:40 PM

"Walt,

What makes you so very sure that the autopsy report will be undermined by the defense's own expert?

How does a person request that a medical examiner file a written statement of non conflict of interest or bias in any particular case?

Either the defense's own expert will have to testify on the stand or provide a written report - will they not?

And even then, won't both examiners be required to take the witness stand in order to even have a trial based upon their autopsy findings?"

Why do you not cite any legal precedent or regulation which requires a Medical Examiner to file a non conflict of interest statement?

For the record there was a case at Walter Reed more than 30 years ago about the chief of anesthesiology buying equipment from a company in which he owned stock. He was convicted in Federal Court of criminal conflict of interest-actually he struck a plea deal-he escaped court martial because the plea deal barred any further prosecution in any other jurisdiction for the crime.

The point is, conflict of interest can take place, but legal remedies are available. But the Justice system must prove conflict of interest, not just allege it.; October 2, 2013 at 6:46 AM
Anonymous said...: Anonymous 7:44 PM:

"walt,

where do you get force witness or witness tampering from wanting to know WHAT FORMAT DOES THE DEFENSE WRITE THE REQUEST IN for a written statement of non-conflict of interest or bias from the medical examiners or any other?"

If I may chime in, I was once a defendant in a personal injury suit. Both my counsel and plaintiff's counsel had opportunity to question members of the Jury pool and reject those they believed had a conflict of interest. There is plenty of room in the legal system to prevent conflict of interest.

Yes, some slip through cracks. They do get subsequently identified and dealt with.

If someone is clever enough to slip through cracks, that perso would be clever enough o file a fraudulent non-conflict of interest statement.; October 2, 2013 at 6:53 AM
Anonymous said...: I thought that use of a deadly weapon (with intent?) is sufficient grounds in NC to invoke the FMR. Not true, Walt? She used a knife......and, if I am correct....then, I suppose the question is whether there was intent and whether the prosecution can/will prove intent. It has seemed, all along, that the larcency charge was just piling on by no conscious Cline....that the FMR was going to have to be based on proving intent. I still think, as I have always thought and said, that this was a drunken argument between two combatants....who got into a push-n-shove and.....the real questions are (a)why didn't Mangum run when she could have, and (b) can the state prove intent to kill or injure, if so how, and(c)where are the injuries to Mangum? I think this was a pretty common brawl....that got out of hand...and she stabbed him. Sure, she had intent to stab him.....perhaps to get him off her....perhaps to kill him. (I doubt it). If I were the betting type, and I am, I would bet she gets off lightly.....time served, or maybe time served with six months added. I doubt a jury will convict her of murder, though a good prosecutor can sure give it a shot; October 2, 2013 at 7:21 AM
Anonymous said...: Anonymous October 2, 2013 at 7:21 AM:

I refer you to SIDNEY's screeds on Shan Carter.

It is a question of intent. My understanding is, you are committing a felony or felonies(as was Shan Carter) and you kill someone while committing those felonies, you can be charged with murder under the felony murder rule, even if there was no pre formed intent.; October 2, 2013 at 7:55 AM
Anonymous said...: KENHYDERAL:

"For now, all I can go on is Crystal's word, but that will change."

What will change? Crystal's word? you mean she is going to admit she was not raped?; October 2, 2013 at 7:59 AM
Anonymous said...: KENHYDERAL:

"For now, all I can go on is Crystal's word, but that will change."

Even if someone does come forth as a witness more than 7 years post incident, how will that refute certain facts?

Crystal alleged a gang rape in which multiple males who did not use condoms molested her, penetrated her and left evidence. However forensic exam of the rape kit showed no evidence of rape. You have come up with some "explanations" why no evidence would be there. They do not outweigh the fact that evidence should have been there.

Crystal alleged she was brutalized. There was no evidence on physical exam that she was raped, that she was subjected to trauma. You cite the phrase "injuries consistent with rape". What specific injuries. She was found to have diffuse vaginal edema but that is not a condition specific to rape and only rape.

So you are again presuming guilt where there is none and calling for a conviction when there was no crime.

Some fighter for truth and justice your are - NOT!!!!; October 2, 2013 at 8:05 AM
Anonymous said...: ....." Felony Murder Rule - States that any death which occurs during the commission or attempt to commit certain felonies, which include arson, rape or other sexual offenses, burglary, robbery or kidnapping, is first-degree murder and all participants in the felony can be held equally culpable, including those who did no harm, had no weapon, and did not intend to hurt anyone. Intent does not have to be proved for anything but the underlying felony. Even if, during the commission of the underlying felony, death occurs from fright -- a heart attack for instance, it is still first-degree murder.".
True, Walt? Opinion??; October 2, 2013 at 8:24 AM
Anonymous said...: There is no way a responsible attorney would put Mangum on the stand. And, that means no self defense claim.
Bet this comes down to a plea deal. And, I bet she gets off with meademeanor manslaughter....; October 2, 2013 at 8:25 AM
A Lawyer said...: There is a procedure for asking a judge to complete an affadavite of non-conflict of interest isn't there? If a person finds the need to ask someone of jury weight (like the judge or potential jury members or the Medical Examiner or SBI, Attorney General, etc.) - WHAT IS THE STANDARD FORMAT so that NO appearance of trying to force anybody into a written agreement (of their own conflict of interest) exists. That's why I asked if there was a standard format - as in - how is it NORMALLY accomplished (as I am sure that it must be a normal type procedure with set rules for how to do it right). What are those?

Judges and lawyers have rules saying when they must recuse themselves (the word used for judges) or disqualify themselves (the word used for lawyers). They do not have to file any affidavit. If a party to a lawsuit thinks the judge or an opposing lawyer should have recused/ disqualified himself and didn't, they can make a motion. (But note that the grounds for recusal and disqualification are not as broad as you think they are; being a fan of Duke Basketball is not a grounds for disqualification in this case.)

As for witnesses (this would include the Medical Examiner), again, no affidavit is necessary; the opposing lawyer can cross--examine the witness to try to show bias. Bias does not disqualify a witness from testifying; it is just one thing the jury can consider in deciding whether or not to believe the witness.

Jurors do get questioned pretty thoroughly before they are seated on the jury to decide if they can be fair and impartial. If the judge finds the juror biased, that juror doesn't get on the jury; the judge's decision can get reviewed on appeal. Each side also gets a number of "peremptory challenges" where they can exclude jurors even if the judge found that juror not biased.; October 2, 2013 at 10:11 AM
Anonymous said...: If anything, one could make a very compelling argument that there has been extraordinary bias in favor of Mangum over the years. She has clearly gotten a pass....several times. And, of course, any idiot who thinks the media was biased against her is either blind or just plain ignorant. Duke, the Durham Police, the DA, et al....did NOT treat the LAX guys fairly at all. We all know it. Mangum was the darling "victim" of the gender-class-race crowd, the Group of 88, the Duke Administration, and national feminazis like Nancy and Wendy. To claim there is some kind of bias against her is laughable. The woman has gotten more breaks than Harr's chicken wings. If she had been held accountable, a long time ago, maybe Daye would not be dead today.; October 2, 2013 at 10:37 AM
Anonymous said...: Ms. Mangum is as much a victim of the mental health system as she is of durham/dukes nefarious ways. Very few people on the type medication she takes for her illness fare well, but also, very few people with mental illness fare well - in NC especially (in large part because of what Duke has done to the nation's mental health system - NC citizens with mental health issues are prime targets for dukes abuse and exploitation - and this includes the ederly and children). You have to consider that one of the CEOs of Eli-Lilly was (and probably still is) a Duke person - and understand the amount of damage and deaths that this one corporation alone has done to the health of millions of people, not only USA citizens, to understand what I mean probably. Generally though - those black box warnings on the drugs prescribed to Ms. Mangum are there for a reason - and those reasons are not well articulated or taken into account when it involves understanding people in general - and yet those things need to be considered when ya'll keep harping on her all the time about things she had no control over. Some of ya'll are being totally ignorant in that regard, I can assure you. To watch duke destroy and control the mental health system and then have to also watch them allow and enable a situation where a mental health patient is treated in such a way because of them that would cause even very healthy people to have mental health issues is criminal and malicious and intentional - and says nothing good about duke and their ability to provide health services to any - as all have a brain that effects mental health and overall health - so duke being so ignorant and malicious about it without stop or remorse - and yet also world leaders in it - that makes duke a huge problem for the entire human race.; October 2, 2013 at 11:08 AM
Anonymous said...: 11:08, which medication are you on?; October 2, 2013 at 11:23 AM
Anonymous said...: seriously - how ignorant of you to ask that of anyone

why would i personally take a medication that is wrapped in a black box is beyond my own personal comprehension

why anyone would is understood only by witnessing ignorance and sheephood like yours because of duke - you don't even realize that do you?; October 2, 2013 at 11:28 AM
Anonymous said...: Anonymous October 2, 2013 at 11:08 AM:

"Ms. Mangum is as much a victim of the mental health system as she is of durham/dukes nefarious ways."

There are no Durham/Duke nefarious ways, unless you mean the way Duke and Durham went after the men Crystal falsely accused of rape.

"Very few people on the type medication she takes for her illness fare well, but also, very few people with mental illness fare well"

What medication does she take. What makes you an expert on mental illness? Suffering from mental illness without realizing it does not render you an expert.

" - in NC especially (in large part because of what Duke has done to the nation's mental health system - NC citizens with mental health issues are prime targets for dukes abuse and exploitation - and this includes the ederly and children)."

How about you provide factual documentation for your allegations.

"You have to consider that one of the CEOs of Eli-Lilly was (and probably still is) a Duke person - and understand the amount of damage and deaths that this one corporation alone has done to the health of millions of people, not only USA citizens, to understand what I mean probably."

Unless you can provide factual documentation, what you mean is you are fabricating.

"Generally though - those black box warnings on the drugs prescribed to Ms. Mangum are there for a reason - and those reasons are not well articulated or taken into account when it involves understanding people in general - and yet those things need to be considered when ya'll keep harping on her all the time about things she had no control over."

Specify what black box medications she is on and who put her on them. For that matter, what is a black box medication?

"Some of ya'll are being totally ignorant in that regard, I can assure you."

You can't assure me of anything because you do nothing but make non credible, uncorroborated allegations.

"To watch duke destroy and control the mental health system and then have to also watch them allow and enable a situation where a mental health patient is treated in such a way because of them that would cause even very healthy people to have mental health issues is criminal and malicious and intentional - and says nothing good about duke and their ability to provide health services to any - as all have a brain that effects mental health and overall health - so duke being so ignorant and malicious about it without stop or remorse - and yet also world leaders in it - that makes duke a huge problem for the entire human race."

No it doesn't. Duke is a big problem to you probably because you do not take the medication prescribed for you for your own, obvious mental health issues.; October 2, 2013 at 11:42 AM
Anonymous said...: Anonymous October 2, 2013 at 11:28 AM:

"seriously - how ignorant of you to ask that of anyone

why would i personally take a medication that is wrapped in a black box is beyond my own personal comprehension

why anyone would is understood only by witnessing ignorance and sheephood like yours because of duke - you don't even realize that do you?"

The more appropriate question to ask is, what medication have you been prescribed for your delusional behavior which you now refuse to take, to your own detriment and the world's.; October 2, 2013 at 11:45 AM
Anonymous said...: ok, I'll bite....."ignorance and sheephood"? What exactly is sheephood?; October 2, 2013 at 11:49 AM
Anonymous said...: blah

you lost me with no duke/durham nefarious ways - you are so seriously out of touch from these cases and durham/duke that your abuse is absurd and over the top obvious

i would venture to say your obsessive participation in your evil duke troll duke lacrosse liestopper ways is an indication of serious mental issues within yourself - but right now i am still wondering if it is just ignorance and paid bullyhood on your part - maybe mixed with a touch of mental illness ... still analyzing your situation there - evil duke troll - or mentally ill ... hmmmmm; October 2, 2013 at 11:52 AM
Anonymous said...: Anonymous October 2, 2013 at 11:52 AM..

"blah

you lost me with no duke/durham nefarious ways"

You lost your own way a long time before that.

" - you are so seriously out of touch from these cases and durham/duke that your abuse is absurd and over the top obvious"

You are again refusing to back up your allegations with factual evidence which, yet again, suggests you are fabricating.

"i would venture to say your obsessive participation in your evil duke troll duke lacrosse liestopper ways is an indication of serious mental issues within yourself"

However since you have shown you have no concept of what serious mental issues are, your venturing is meaningless.

" - but right now i am still wondering if it is just ignorance and paid bullyhood on your part - maybe mixed with a touch of mental illness ... still analyzing your situation there - evil duke troll - or mentally ill ... hmmmmm"

What you are yet again doing is refusing to document your allegations with factual evidence, so you are fabricating and trying to baffle the world with bullshit.; October 2, 2013 at 12:11 PM
Lance the Supreme Poster of Enlightenment said...: "why would i personally take a medication that is wrapped in a black box is beyond my own personal comprehension "

So-called "black box" medication warnings refer to an alert that appears on the medication package insert or patient information leaflet.

Consider yourself enlightened.; October 2, 2013 at 12:40 PM
Walt said...: Anonymous at 11:08 AM wrote: "You have to consider that one of the CEOs of Eli-Lilly was (and probably still is) a Duke person...."

The CEO of Eli Lilly is John C. Lechleiter, Ph.D.. Dr. Lechleiter has his B.Sc. from Xavier University and his Ph.D. from Harvard.

You would be much more persuasive if you backed up your claims with facts.

Walt-in-Durham; October 2, 2013 at 1:15 PM
kenhyderal said...: Anonymous @ 2:31 said: "If, by the people charged with examining the evidence, you mean corrupt DA NIFONG"...... No, I was discussing the good character of Crystal and her responsible parenting. Her Lawyer in the Walker case provided Judge Jones with many references, attesting to this, which caused him to come to this same conclusion. The North Caroline Child Protection Services did a thorough review of Crystal and found no reason, then, that her children should not be returned to her. The poster, I was responding to, like you, should question why this is so. Those who, examine the real evidence, like Judge Jones and like Child Protection Services come to the correct conclusion. Others, especially those who do not know her personally, should stop listening to and spreading lies and distortions and should be very suspect of the motive and agenda of the sources of such gossip.; October 2, 2013 at 1:34 PM
Lance the Supreme Poster of Enlightenment said...: Kenhyderal -- A serious question. I thought the father of 2 of Crystal Mangum's children had custody of them, and was in West Virginia (?). Is this not true?; October 2, 2013 at 1:37 PM
kenhyderal said...: Anonymous @ 11:08 said: "Very few people on the type medication she takes for her illness fare well, but also, very few people with mental illness fare well - in NC ".......... Sheer speculation; you have no knowledge of Crystal's prescription medications or her medical conditions. Such speculations have been widely disseminated, in order to try and label her as mentally ill. Her medical records, in the Duke Lacrosse case were sealed because, it was adjudged, they bore no relevance to the charge she was making.; October 2, 2013 at 1:49 PM
Anonymous said...: KENHYDERAL:

"Anonymous @ 2:31 said: 'If, by the people charged with examining the evidence, you mean corrupt DA NIFONG'...... No, I was discussing the good character of Crystal and her responsible parenting."

So it is good character and good parenting to turn tricks while someone else is watching her children, good character and good parenting to set a fire in her boyfriend's apartment while her children are present? Oh come now.

"Her Lawyer in the Walker case provided Judge Jones with many references, attesting to this, which caused him to come to this same conclusion."

Which is like the Grand Jury which indicted the innocent members of the Lacrosse team. Judge Jones saw only what he wanted to see. As a result he was not reelected to the bench.

The North Caroline Child Protection Services did a thorough review of Crystal and found no reason, then, that her children should not be returned to her. The poster, I was responding to, like you, should question why this is so."

It seems that the NC Child Protection services did not see the bad part of Crystal's life.

"Those who, examine the real evidence, like Judge Jones and like Child Protection Services come to the correct conclusion.

So why don't you look at the real evidence in the Phoney Duke Rape case and admit Crysta fabricated her allegations.

"Others, especially those who do not know her personally, should stop listening to and spreading lies and distortions and should be very suspect of the motive and agenda of the sources of such gossip."

No one is spreading lies and gossip about Crystal. Her evil reputation is the consequence of her own doing.; October 2, 2013 at 1:49 PM
Anonymous said...: KENHYDERAL:

You sure do not seem as eager as you once were to insist that Crysta was raped. How about you just admit she fabricated the rape allegations.; October 2, 2013 at 1:50 PM
kenhyderal said...: @ Lance. Her two older kids at present yes. This situation cant change while she is still under charge.; October 2, 2013 at 1:52 PM
Anonymous said...: KENHYDERAL:

"[Crystal's] medical records, in the Duke Lacrosse case were sealed because, it was adjudged, they bore no relevance to the charge she was making."

They were sealed because they were an extensive history of her mental instability. Whoever sealed them was being merciful and respecting the privacy of her medical records, unlike your boy SIDNEY HARR who thinks he has carte blanche to access and publish another's confidential medical records.; October 2, 2013 at 1:53 PM
Anonymous said...: KENHYDERAL:

At least you admit it was Crystal's medical record which was sealed and not any evidence corrupt DA NIFONG had which established the occurrence of a rape.

Now, why don't you just admit Crystal fabricated the rape allegations she made.; October 2, 2013 at 1:55 PM
kenhyderal said...: Anonymous said: "You sure do not seem as eager as you once were to insist that Crysta was raped. How about you just admit she fabricated the rape allegations"..... Huh! What would give you that impression.; October 2, 2013 at 1:56 PM
Anonymous said...: KENHYDERAL:

"@ Lance. Her two older kids at present yes. This situation cant change while she is still under charge."

Which means she can not see those children because there is probable cause to believe she is criminally responsible for Reginald Daye's death and nothing more.; October 2, 2013 at 1:57 PM
Anonymous said...: KENHYDERAK:

"Anonymous said: "You sure do not seem as eager as you once were to insist that Crysta was raped. How about you just admit she fabricated the rape allegations"..... Huh! What would give you that impression."

The fact that you are far more reluctant to make claims that there was evidence on the rape kit which somehow disappeared, that there were unknown non lacrosse players at the party who raped Crystal.

So now are you going to start those allegations again. If so, explain how an alleged violent semen depositing rape would not leave evidence on the rape kit. Speculation is not evidence.; October 2, 2013 at 1:59 PM
kenhyderal said...: Anonymous @ 1:49 said: "So it is good character and good parenting to turn tricks while someone else is watching her children, good character and good parenting to set a fire in her boyfriend's apartment while her children are present? Oh come now"......There is no evidence, whatsoever, that Crystal engaged in prostitution. Don't worry, had there been any, the investigators, for the defence, would have spread it far and wide. Since they found nothing all they were left with was to spread it as gossip. As far as the arson charge nine of twelve thought her innocent. Judge Jones had severe misgivings as to whether the clothes burning, in a bathtub, was arson and whether it endangered her children in any way. The misdemeanor child abuse convictions she got (3 for 1) would be the same charge if a person who left a child in a hot car or carelessly allowed them wander onto a busy street.; October 2, 2013 at 2:10 PM
Anonymous said...: walt i said ONE OF THE CEO's and that he was / perhaps still is ONE OF the ceo's - and i obviously do not need to document anything i say since everything i say is in the news (except for picking up that she was on paxil and other meds from reading posts on this blog). She herself has stated she was mentally ill - which i read in the paper.; October 2, 2013 at 2:44 PM
Walt said...: Anonymous at 2:44 PM wrote: "walt i said ONE OF THE CEO's and that he was / perhaps still is ONE OF the ceo's - and i obviously do not need to document anything i say since everything i say is in the news (except for picking up that she was on paxil and other meds from reading posts on this blog). She herself has stated she was mentally ill - which i read in the paper."

Again, if you checked you would know Lilly has only once CEO, Lechleiter. He's held the job since 2008. Before him was Sidney Taurel, a Moroccan. He went to university in France and has his MBA from Columbia. Taurel served from 1998 until 2008. I suppose you are referring to Randall Tobias who was CEO before Taurel. Tobias was a Duke Trustee and remains a Trustee Emeritus as well as a Trustee of Indiana University. However, he retired from Lilly on January 1, 1999. That's fourteen years ago. Hardly current. Fact checking is so easy and would make you so much more persuasive.

Walt-in-Durham; October 2, 2013 at 3:09 PM
Walt said...: Kenhyderal wrote: " Her two older kids at present yes. This situation cant change while she is still under charge."

Which means she can not see those children because there is probable cause to believe she is criminally responsible for Reginald Daye's death and nothing more."

Some good news for the kids at least.

Walt-in-Durham; October 2, 2013 at 3:11 PM
kenhyderal said...: Anonymous said: " She herself has stated she was mentally ill - which i read in the paper"....... She said no such thing.; October 2, 2013 at 3:12 PM
Walt said...: Sid did file his reply brief. The good news is, he didn't violate the Middle District's 30 page limit on briefs. The bad news for Sid is, he admitted Duke, Brodhead and Levy are right, his case is barred by the doctrine of res judicata. Of course Sid had a number of excuses that no parent would accept form a child. I hope he has some money in hid checking account, I'm thinking Rule 9 will bite him.

Walt-in-Durham; October 2, 2013 at 3:14 PM
Anonymous said...: The plight of the mentally ill and the mental health system was (and still is occassionally) documented in-depth through the news and observer during the past several years.

The fact about the meds is covered more often these days in the news - although there is still a lot left unsaid - and more that could be done to alleviate the plight of those whom suffer from this scrouge to mankind - the inability to successfully, compassionately, and intelligently treat people with the full realization intact that they actually do have a brain - and the right to be well - funny thing that.; October 2, 2013 at 3:14 PM
Walt said...: Anonymous at 8:24 AM wrote about the felony murder rule: "... Even if, during the commission of the underlying felony, death occurs from fright -- a heart attack for instance, it is still first-degree murder.". True, Walt? Opinion??"

Indeed, Crystal's assault with a deadly weapon is sufficient for the FMR. I don't think the jury will convict but if things go well for the state or poorly for Crystal, they could. It would not be reversible error.

Walt-in-Durham; October 2, 2013 at 3:17 PM
A Lawyer said...: I hope he has some money in hid checking account, I'm thinking Rule 9 will bite him.

I think you mean Rule 11.

BTW, can you post Duke's motion and Dr. Harr's response? or tell me where I can find them on the internet?; October 2, 2013 at 3:24 PM
Walt said...: A Lawyer, you're right, Rule 11. Unfortunately, Sid's brief is only on Pacer. Even if you go to Justia, they don't have much other than links to Pacer. but, here's the link to Justia: http://dockets.justia.com/docket/north-carolina/ncmdce/1:2013cv00673/63535/

HTH
Walt; October 2, 2013 at 4:04 PM
Anonymous said...: yep, the good mother killed a man.....then ran her drunk ass to the place where her child was......yep, that makes great sense. yep, the good mother shacked up and slept with a man she had known for a couple of weeks. Yep, the good mother had the DNA of at least five men in and on her....not ONE of whom was a LAX player at the party, much less any of the three she falsely identified. Yep, being a pole vaulting amoral sex worker.....child abuser.....drunk....drug abusing killer..........yep, great mom. Mother of the Year material there, Ken Edwards.; October 2, 2013 at 4:22 PM
kenhyderal said...: Crystal is a moral person. She has never abused her children, She is not a drug addict or an alcoholic. She was found to be a good Mother; October 2, 2013 at 4:43 PM
Anonymous said...: KENHYDERAL:

"There is no evidence, whatsoever, that Crystal engaged in prostitution."

Yes there is, some of which is the DNA from multiple males found on her at the time she falsely accused the Lacrosse players of raping her.

"Don't worry, had there been any, the investigators, for the defence, would have spread it far and wide. Since they found nothing all they were left with was to spread it as gossip."

No one has spread gossip about Crystal. What has been spread is the truth about her background.

"As far as the arson charge nine of twelve thought her innocent. Judge Jones had severe misgivings as to whether the clothes burning, in a bathtub, was arson and whether it endangered her children in any way."

That means Judge Jones was an incompetent jurist. It was arson. Arson committed when children are present does endanger the children.

"The misdemeanor child abuse convictions she got (3 for 1) would be the same charge if a person who left a child in a hot car or carelessly allowed them wander onto a busy street."

Leaving a child in a hot car can kill a child. If what Crystal did was the equivalent of leaving a child in a hot car, it was a lot more than a misdemeanor.; October 2, 2013 at 5:00 PM
Anonymous said...: Anonymous October 2, 2013 at 3:14 PM

"The plight of the mentally ill and the mental health system was (and still is occassionally) documented in-depth through the news and observer during the past several years.

The fact about the meds is covered more often these days in the news - although there is still a lot left unsaid - and more that could be done to alleviate the plight of those whom suffer from this scrouge to mankind - the inability to successfully, compassionately, and intelligently treat people with the full realization intact that they actually do have a brain - and the right to be well - funny thing that."

Which is another way of saying you can not or will not corroborate the allegations you make.; October 2, 2013 at 5:04 PM
Anonymous said...: KENHYDERAL:

"Crystal is a moral person."

Moral people do not falsely accuse innocent men of raping them.

Moral people do not steal cars and try to run down cops.; October 2, 2013 at 5:06 PM
Anonymous said...: Dont you just love Ken Edwards. Whenever he runs out of lies, he always falls back on his ace in the hole and reminds us that Judge Jones told Mangum he thought she was a good mother. Hey, Ken, why don't you grow a pair and find out the REST of what the judge said to her that day, bro? And why don't you admit she got convicted on all but one of the charges? And why don't you admit that the arson charge was dropped because the jury hung on it......not because they found her innocent of it. Why don't you admit that Mangum now has a NINE conviction record, bro? NINE.......
Oh, of course, we all know she is innocent of all that stuff and she's not a common whore......sure, right, you betcha. We all know she never EVER got drunk, screwed for money, abused drugs, exposed her children to immoral dangerous and unstable environments. We all know she is just a chaste sweet mother of three......just the poor innocent victim of the evil white oppressors.....Yep, we all know this......; October 2, 2013 at 5:50 PM
kenhyderal said...: "Moral people do not steal cars and try to run down cops"..... Her being in possession of the automobile without intent to steal it and under the opinion she had permission of the owner, too intoxicated to drive had it retracted by him when questioned by the Police. It was then considered by the court to be a Class 1 felony. That's a far cry from the Grand Theft Auto it's been made out to be. She did not attempt to run over a police officer. After being pulled over and attempting to park she accidentally side-swiped the approaching policeman. He had no injury whatsoever. This has been portrayed as attempted vehicular homicide. The actual charge of assault on a Government worker was a real stretch. She received probation for these.; October 2, 2013 at 9:17 PM
kenhyderal said...: Anonymous said: "Why don't you admit that Mangum now has a NINE conviction record, bro?"........................... Only one of the Nine charges has any real validity and that is her driving over the limit at age 21.; October 2, 2013 at 9:30 PM

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Sunday, September 22, 2013

Girlfriends with knives: A comparison

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