Wednesday, March 26, 2014

Dr. Christena L. Roberts: "The initial intubation was esophageal"


137 comments:

Nifong Supporter said...


Anonymous said...
If you actually pay attention to the articles - the reason UNC suspended PJ was the drug arrest, the overuse of rental cars (provided by a convicted felon), and the lack of judgment with the speeding. And, with all the stuff with the football team, they were worried about improper benefits, and when they originally interviewed him, he was not forthcoming with the extent of his relationship with this convicted felon, and how often he was using rental cars provided by this man.

UNC was worried about additional payments coming out, and NCAA sanctions. It had little to do with the speeding and the initial drug arrest, and a lot more to do with what it exposed related to possible improper benefits, which would cause problems for the school.


I agreed that UNC suspended Hairston because it was afraid of the big, bad NCAA.

Regarding the reasons you gave:
1) Drug arrest? Marijuana is now legal in Colorado. It's not like he was main-lining heroin;
2) Overuse of rental cars? What is overuse... more than one time... more than ten times? If he doesn't have his own car, what's wrong with using a rental? And, so what if a rental car is paid for by a felon. It's not against the law!
3) Lack of judgment with speeding (boy, are you scraping the bottom of the barrel). Lots of people speed, but they are not punished outside of traffic court. As Shakespeare once said, it's much ado about nothing.

Lance The Supreme Poster of Enlightenment said...

All you need to know is contained within this sentence from the summary:

"Mr. Daye died as a result of a chain of events that began with a stab wound to the chest and therefore I agree that the Cause of Death is Complication of a Stab Wound to the Chest."


Anonymous said...

Regarding the reasons you gave:
1) Drug arrest? Marijuana is now legal in Colorado. It's not like he was main-lining heroin;


Whether that is true or not, it is illegal here, and more people are in Federal custody for Marijuana than anything else. I agree the laws are ridiculous, but a lot of promising young kids have had their futures ruined by the stupid War on Drugs - but until the laws change, they are what they are.


2) Overuse of rental cars? What is overuse... more than one time... more than ten times? If he doesn't have his own car, what's wrong with using a rental? And, so what if a rental car is paid for by a felon. It's not against the law!


No, but if it is determined to be an "improper benefit" it is against NCAA rules and would make him ineligible, and could cause the team to forfeit their games - they didn't want to take the risk, especially since he wasn't forthcoming with them.

3) Lack of judgment with speeding (boy, are you scraping the bottom of the barrel). Lots of people speed, but they are not punished outside of traffic court. As Shakespeare once said, it's much ado about nothing.



Legally, and for his future, absolutely, this should be a blip, but UNC has to care about the NCAA, and can't let 1 player, who cares only about himself, not the school, risk it for everyone else.

Anonymous said...

"Mr. Daye died as a result of a chain of events that began with a stab wound to the chest and therefore I agree that the Cause of Death is Complication of a Stab Wound to the Chest. The mechanism of his death was a known complication to a procedure, specifically, aspiration following emesis after placement of a nasogastric tube for contrast administration. The initial intubation was esophageal because the emesis was blocking view of the vocal cords. Two 92) subsequent intubations were shown to be in the airway. This event was followed by cardiopulmonary arrest with anoxic brain injury" From Roberts report.
Folks, THIS paragraph says it ALL. All the rest of the bullshit obfuscation, misdirection, and crap Harr is slinging is completely irrelevant. Roberts AGREED with the autopsy finding. Period. End of story.
He can whine and lie all he wants. No matter.

kenhyderal said...

This event was "followed" by cardiopulmonary arrest with anoxic brain injury.......... Followed by or preceded by cardiopulmonary arrest?

Anonymous said...

Read the full report for yourself. All that matters is the paragraph in quotes above.

A Lawyer said...

Dr. Harr swore to us up and down that Dr. Roberts' report would be exculpatory, and Mangum's lawyer talked her out of calling Roberts only because he was a "turncoat" who was trying to protect Duke. We now know that calling Roberts would have hurt Mangum's defense, not helped it.

When will Dr. Harr apologize for slandering the reputation of a good lawyer?

Anonymous said...

The very end statement is what matters: That he died Not from the stab wound which would not cause immediate death, but from complications ... re: the complications killed him - not the stab wound itself. Or - if they took him to another hospital instead of duke he would not have died unless that hospital fracked up too like duke. So was it the stab wound - no - it was what duke did that killed him.

Anonymous said...

Doesn't Dr. Roberts have a professional responsibility to report her findings about the discrepancies and lack of proper procedures like lack of photos and x-rays when she first discovered the problems? How do professionals like that get away with allowing faulty work to go unheeded for so long - even to the point of false incarceration due to their lack of reporting in timely manner?

Lance The Supreme Poster of Enlightenment said...

"That he died Not from the stab wound which would not cause immediate death, but from complications ... re: the complications killed him - not the stab wound itself"

No stabbing = no complications.
nicht wahr?

Anonymous said...

Dr. Nichols admitted it wasn't the stab wound that did it - he specifically admitted it should have been non-fatal, that it was some other "complication" that did it. But, as has been explained way too many times to count (and I realize you will still ignore it this time), since the reason he was in the hospital was the stab wound, and the complications (as Dr. Roberts clearly states) arose out of treatment related to his hospitalization, that's A proximate cause, even if not THE proximate cause. Oh, and note, Dr. Roberts says there was a chest tube, also says DTs were ruled out. Sid ignores the parts where she shows he's wrong, agrees with what he wants, and blames the vase Duke conspiracy for everything else.

Anonymous said...

how convenient for duke

no ... actually the judge himself states that malpractice is considered seperately if that is the cause of death

noone is responsible for malpractice except those whom commit it - otherwise everyone would have to make written agreements as to what hospital people are to be taken to in case they have to defend themselves - and that is NOT done - so there is no way anyone but the professionals could be responsible for their own malpractice

Anonymous said...

Dr. Nichols would have no need to risk his professional career by documenting lies, discrepancies, and lack of normal autopsy procedural items if he did not think he needed to somehow show that the knife wound was more to blame than what it was if your understanding of the law that differs from what the law actually means is correct.

none

Anonymous said...

Anonymous @3:15:

No. The judge did NOT state that.

The judge's instructions were consistent with case law. Mangum's criminal responsibility is NOT cut off unless the malpractice is the SOLE cause of death. Malpractice in response to complications from the stabbing does not eliminate Mangum's criminal liability.

You, Kenny and Sidney all refuse to provide case law to support your conclusion. That is not persuasive.

kenhyderal said...

" Anonymous @ 1:40 said: (Roberts) says DTs were ruled out. Where? Did I miss something. I note that the contention, frequently made here, that there was no esophageal intubation has now been put to rest.

Anonymous said...

Kenny,

I note that another contention, frequently made here, that an esophageal intubation did not cut off Mangum's criminal responsibility has now been supported by yet another source.

Anonymous said...

Actually - most people who live here refuse to go durham where they might have to defend themselves, etc, and then have to deal with duke and their malpractice, and then have to deal with the duke / durham judicial system - all for the simple error of actually going to durham. Sad yet true.

kenhyderal said...

Anonymous said: "I note that another contention, frequently made here, that an esophageal intubation did not cut off Mangum's criminal responsibility has now been supported by yet another source"...........This conclusion is based on the belief that the source of Daye's distress, that necessitated his tracheal intubation, was a complication of his wound and not of his chronic alcoholism and subsequent alcohol withdrawal symptoms. Like the disproved claim that Daye was not wrongly intubated in the esophagus the naïve belief that Daye was not an alcoholic could have easily been countered. It didn't take a psychologist to see that those friends and relatives questioned about Daye's drinking were extremely vague and diplomatic.( Speak no ill of the dead) Lawyers for Crystal should have presented evidence of his alcoholism. Medical opinions from Duke regarding putative alcoholism and delirium tremens should also have been presented. Showing no nexus between the wound and his death while undergoing treatment for alcohol withdrawal should negate any Welsh ruling. Like the esophageal intubation at some point in this affair Daye's alcoholism will also be a stipulated fact.

Anonymous said...

Fine, Kenny.

Give us evidence. Why do you refuse to provide evidence?

The unsupported opinion of a person who believes in mystery rapists is not valuable.

Anonymous said...

Kenny:

If you stab an alcoholic and he dies you are responsible for his death, even if the victim's alcoholism exacerbated the injury or complicated his recovery. You can't go around stabbing alcoholics and blame it on their alcoholism.

If you stab someone and the hospital fails to treat him properly, you are still responsible.

If you stab someone and the ambulance has a mechanical failure while rushing the victim to the hospital and the victim dies, you are still responsible.

If you stab someone and it sends them into a epileptic seizure and they die because of the seizure you are still responsible.

If you stab someone on the 32nd floor of a building and they fall out a window and die you are still responsible.

If you stab someone and the blade snaps off inside the victim because it is defective, and as a reult the blade can't be quickly extracted and the victim bleeds out you (and not the manufacturer of the defective blade) are still responsible.

If you stab someone you are responsible for the outcome. Have you not been paying attention?

Anonymous said...

Fine, Kenny.

Give us case law. Provide precedent that alcoholism is not a pre-existing condition and that treatment for alcohol withdrawal would cut off Mangum's criminal liability. Why do you refuse to provide case law?

The unsupported opinion of a person who believes in mystery rapists is not valuable.

Nifong Supporter said...


Lance The Supreme Poster of Enlightenment said...
All you need to know is contained within this sentence from the summary:

"Mr. Daye died as a result of a chain of events that began with a stab wound to the chest and therefore I agree that the Cause of Death is Complication of a Stab Wound to the Chest."


Dr. Roberts felt compelled to reach the same conclusion as Dr. Nichols in order to justify the State's prosecution of Mangum. She knows very well that the proximate cause of Daye's death was the brain death due to the esophageal intubation. It just shows that she, like turncoat attorney Meier, was not acting in her best interests or being objective and truthful.

Nifong Supporter said...


Anonymous said...
"Mr. Daye died as a result of a chain of events that began with a stab wound to the chest and therefore I agree that the Cause of Death is Complication of a Stab Wound to the Chest. The mechanism of his death was a known complication to a procedure, specifically, aspiration following emesis after placement of a nasogastric tube for contrast administration. The initial intubation was esophageal because the emesis was blocking view of the vocal cords. Two 92) subsequent intubations were shown to be in the airway. This event was followed by cardiopulmonary arrest with anoxic brain injury" From Roberts report.
Folks, THIS paragraph says it ALL. All the rest of the bullshit obfuscation, misdirection, and crap Harr is slinging is completely irrelevant. Roberts AGREED with the autopsy finding. Period. End of story.
He can whine and lie all he wants. No matter.


You are allowing Dr. Roberts to play a Jedi mind-trick on you. She makes false statements about the number of intubations and the sequence of events related to them in order to confuse and misdirect the reader from the truth. It is plain from the medical record by the respiratory therapist that there were only two intubations... the first was esophageal and preceded and precipitated the cardiac arrest, and the second was after Daye went into cardiac arrest and he was re-intubated along with CPR.

Nifong Supporter said...


A Lawyer said...
Dr. Harr swore to us up and down that Dr. Roberts' report would be exculpatory, and Mangum's lawyer talked her out of calling Roberts only because he was a "turncoat" who was trying to protect Duke. We now know that calling Roberts would have hurt Mangum's defense, not helped it.

When will Dr. Harr apologize for slandering the reputation of a good lawyer?


A Lawyer, did you fail to read the parts of her report that stated that Nichols' autopsy report contradicted other medical records and observation at surgery... including phantom injuries and phantom repairs?

The report goes to the heart of the credibility of Dr. Nichols and his report... a medical examiner whose credibility is already under question in a Cumberland County case.

Nifong Supporter said...


Anonymous said...
Doesn't Dr. Roberts have a professional responsibility to report her findings about the discrepancies and lack of proper procedures like lack of photos and x-rays when she first discovered the problems? How do professionals like that get away with allowing faulty work to go unheeded for so long - even to the point of false incarceration due to their lack of reporting in timely manner?


The date of Dr. Roberts' report is not stated in the document, so it might have been prepared in 2012 under attorney Woody Vann. What I find extremely problematic is the extents the attorneys went through to keep Mangum from getting a copy. It's bad enough when prosecution withholds evidence from a defendant, but when a defense attorney withholds important evidence from his client that is extremely egregious.

Nifong Supporter said...


Anonymous said...
Doesn't Dr. Roberts have a professional responsibility to report her findings about the discrepancies and lack of proper procedures like lack of photos and x-rays when she first discovered the problems? How do professionals like that get away with allowing faulty work to go unheeded for so long - even to the point of false incarceration due to their lack of reporting in timely manner?


This comment also brings up the very important fact that there is no oversight in place with respect to work done by the medical examiners in North Carolina. The DHHS, under which the Medical Examiner's Office is situated, is an inept agency that is in total disarray and incapable of regulating work produced by M.E.s.

Nifong Supporter said...


Lance The Supreme Poster of Enlightenment said...
"That he died Not from the stab wound which would not cause immediate death, but from complications ... re: the complications killed him - not the stab wound itself"

No stabbing = no complications.
nicht wahr?


Supreme Poster, name one complication that resulted in Mr. Daye's death. At trial, Dr. Nichols and turncoat attorney Daniel Meier tried to suggest an infection of some catastrophic event resulted in his death. Just vague ambiguities... nothing specific.

Nifong Supporter said...


Anonymous said...
Anonymous @3:15:

No. The judge did NOT state that.

The judge's instructions were consistent with case law. Mangum's criminal responsibility is NOT cut off unless the malpractice is the SOLE cause of death. Malpractice in response to complications from the stabbing does not eliminate Mangum's criminal liability.

You, Kenny and Sidney all refuse to provide case law to support your conclusion. That is not persuasive.


You are absolutely correct. The esophageal intubation was the sole cause of Daye's brain death. Had Daye not been intubated in the esophagus his brain would not have been deprived of oxygen and he would have most likely survived. An esophageal intubation, if not recognized and corrected in a timely manner, will invariably result in brain death, cardiac arrest, and proceed to actual death.

Nifong Supporter said...


kenhyderal said...
" Anonymous @ 1:40 said: (Roberts) says DTs were ruled out. Where? Did I miss something. I note that the contention, frequently made here, that there was no esophageal intubation has now been put to rest.


Like kenhyderal, I do not recall seeing anything that ruled out DTs as a cause for Daye's symptoms, including agitation. Of the differential diagnoses Dr. Roberts mentioned, it was delirium tremens which was far and away the most likely cause.

Lance The Supreme Poster of Enlightenment said...

"Supreme Poster, name one complication that resulted in Mr. Daye's death"

Sid -- Here I'll simply quote Dr. Roberts:

"Death occurred as a result of injuries that were not immediately lethal but from complications of those injuries"

Have a problem with it? Take it up with Dr. Roberts.

kenhyderal said...

@ Anonymous at 6:27; ..... Yes to all the examples you have given The Welsh ruling covers them all but it does not extend to an enforced alcohol withdrawal from a hospitalized alcoholic when that condition is in no way related to the reason for his hospitalization. The botched treatment of the syndrome, precipitated not by his wound but by the hospital's policy of denying alcohol to an addict and relying on successful emergency treatment of this condition. If his death was caused by mismanagement of his wound then Welsh would apply

kenhyderal said...

Ooops I missed a "was" in sentence #2

Anonymous said...

Obviously something is wrong if this case is still at this stage even after the trial. I've been watching these same arguments go on for a year now, there has been a 'trial', and just now the second autopsy report is revealed - and still being argued about - something that should have happened long ago (say at least 400 plus autopsies ago - who's going to go back and review and investigate those - the innocence commission?).

Anonymous said...

Kenny,

You are repeating your DTs allegation.

Why no medical evidence? Why no medical experts? Why no case law? Why no legal experts?

Is this simply your opinion? Why should we accept the unsupported opinion of someone who believes in mystery rapists?

Come on, Kenny. You are the Google king. Impress us with case law. There must be some case that supports your opinion.

Otherwise, we will be forced to conclude that this is as credible as your mystery rapists.

guiowen said...

To the 4:32,
You don't understand, Kenny is a master debater. Anything he says must be accepted as true. Even if there is physical proof otherwise (say, a photograph), this just means Duke paid someone to doctor the photograph.

Lance The Supreme Poster of Enlightenment said...

Anonymous@2:56 -
The Innocence Commission only investigates cases where new evidence of innocence has emerged post-conviction. They do not review technical or procedural trial errors.

Anonymous said...

They prosecute specific DA's in Duke / Durham and grossly distorted justice in their vendetta driven innocence campaign from what i've seen in the local news in Durham.

kenhyderal said...

Anonymous said: "You are repeating your DTs allegation.
Why no medical evidence? Why no medical experts? Why no case law?........... The medical evidence and facts, that undoubtedly exists at Duke Hospital have never been investigated, not by Dr. Nicholls, not by Dr. Roberts and not by Barrister Meier. An opinion, by experts, on the cause of Daye's distress, the faulty treatment of which led to his demise, has never been rendered. There is plenty of circumstantial evidence in the documents Dr. Harr posted, though. Case law such as Welsh and the jury instruction as enunciated by Judge Ridgeway explained that a "direct" nexus must be in place. Common sense will also tell you this. There is no nexus between Daye's stab wound and the medical emergency ,the mistreatment of which led to his demise.

kenhyderal said...

Lance said: "The Innocence Commission only investigates cases where new evidence of innocence has emerged post-conviction. They do not review technical or procedural trial errors".......... ie. Dayes's death from the medical mismanagement of a condition, not in any way related to the stab wound. The most serious charge Crystal should have ever faced was attempted murder or wounding with intent and she should have been acquitted of that by reason of self-defence. New evidence would be that the treatment Daye was undergoing was unrelated to his wound. Duke knows this and should be forced to testify.

Anonymous said...

Kenny whines: Common sense will also tell you this.

I will not be lectured about common sense by someone who professes a belief in mystery rapists.

Give me some case law.

Anonymous said...

You really don't understand how any of this works. There is no "new" evidence, all the case law and experts who have looked at this have reached the same conclusion - the stabbing started the chain of events. If you don't like it, change the law, but just because a delusional, narcissistic former doctor says only he is right and everyone else is lying, doesn't make it so.

Why do you assume Duke and the doctors weren't interviewed? Why do you assume that what they would have said would have been helpful to Crystal?

It would be standard for them to have been interviewed before the trial, and I'm sure they were. Again, just because you aren't being given information you have no right to have doesn't mean it doesn't exist, and your constant bleating and ignoring of what others post just confirms your delusion. I'm sure you will ignore this too.

Lance The Supreme Poster of Enlightenment said...

"They prosecute specific DA's in Duke / Durham and grossly distorted justice in their vendetta driven innocence campaign from what i've seen in the local news in Durham."

If you're referring to the Darryl Howard case, that was the Duke Law innocence Project, a volunteer organization made up of Duke Law students and faculty.

The Innocence Commission is a state agency.

Nifong Supporter said...


Lance The Supreme Poster of Enlightenment said...
"Supreme Poster, name one complication that resulted in Mr. Daye's death"

Sid -- Here I'll simply quote Dr. Roberts:

"Death occurred as a result of injuries that were not immediately lethal but from complications of those injuries"

Have a problem with it? Take it up with Dr. Roberts.


That statement by Dr. Roberts is as vague and ambiguous as you can get, and that is the problem with her review and with the autopsy report by Dr. Nichols. Vague to the extreme.

Nifong Supporter said...


Anonymous said...
Kenny,

You are repeating your DTs allegation.

Why no medical evidence? Why no medical experts? Why no case law? Why no legal experts?

Is this simply your opinion? Why should we accept the unsupported opinion of someone who believes in mystery rapists?

Come on, Kenny. You are the Google king. Impress us with case law. There must be some case that supports your opinion.

Otherwise, we will be forced to conclude that this is as credible as your mystery rapists.

It is clear by history and Daye's admission himself that he is an alcoholic. It is also clear that he was significantly intoxicated with a stuporous blood alcohol level on admission to the hospital.

The severe agitation he suffered by the fourth day of hospitalization makes it clear that the symptoms resulting in his transfer to the SICU were related to his alcoholism.

kenhyderal said...

Anonymous said: It would be standard for them to have been interviewed before the trial, and I'm sure they were. Again, just because you aren't being given information you have no right to have doesn't mean it doesn't exist, and your constant bleating and ignoring of what others post just confirms your delusion. I'm sure you will ignore this too...... To my knowledge they were not interviewed and if they were, what they told was not related to Crystal. That is no way for an Attorney to treat a client. Roberts report was withheld from Crystal until the a court order was issued and then coercion was used to prevent her from using the information as part of her defence. Like it or not, the fact that Daye's death was unrelated to his wound and without any nexus to that wound which would trigger a Welsh ruling, is new evidence.

Anonymous said...

Roberts report was withheld from Crystal until the a court order was issued


If you actually paid attention to the trial, the Roberts Report was not "withheld" from anyone, it did not exist. The Judge ordered it to be produced, so Dr. Roberts prepared it and produced it, and it was then given to Crystal and the Prosecutor. And, the conclusion it reached is the one that Crystal was told all along - that the cause of death was complications from the stab wound to the chest.

Anonymous said...

Like it or not, the fact that Daye's death was unrelated to his wound and without any nexus to that wound which would trigger a Welsh ruling, is new evidence.


Where is your proof? The people actually trained and hired to determine cause of death, all disagree with you. A narcissistic crackpot who calls himself a doctor isn't a fact, nor any evidence that everyone else but him is wrong and lying.

kenhyderal said...

Anonymous said: "If you actually paid attention to the trial, the Roberts Report was not "withheld" from anyone, it did not exist. The Judge ordered it to be produced, so Dr. Roberts prepared it and produced it, and it was then given to Crystal and the Prosecutor. And, the conclusion it reached is the one that Crystal was told all along - that the cause of death was complications from the stab wound to the chest"......... No, it existed alright. You are wrong. That undated report was not produced only after Judge Ridgeway's order. It was produced when it was first commissioned by Vann and it was purposely withheld from Crystal. Roberts, like Nicholls, needed to testify and be cross-examined forcefully especially about her acknowledgement that Daye had been intubated in the esophagus, the consequence of which, unrelated to the stab wound, caused his death. It was Duke not Crystal.

kenhyderal said...

Anonymous said: "The people actually trained and hired to determine cause of death, all disagree with you".... Dr. Nicholls made no mention of Daye's esophageal intubation. Are you sure Dr. Nicholls will disagree with Dr.Harr that this error precipitated Daye's brain death.

Anonymous said...

Dr. Harr thank you for sharing Dr. Robert's autopsy report on your blog. Do you know how well Ms. Mangum's request for an investigation into the autopsy reports is progressing? How long will it take for the appeals court to give their decisions?

Lance The Supreme Poster of Enlightenment said...

Ken -- Have you done anything to assist Sid with his search for legal resources?

Anonymous said...

No, it existed alright. You are wrong. That undated report was not produced only after Judge Ridgeway's order. It was produced when it was first commissioned by Vann and it was purposely withheld from Crystal.


What proof do you have of this? Personally, I tend to believe that people weren't perjuring themselves in Court, and to Crystal (who has admitted she was repeatedly told there wasn't a written report), and that it wasn't produced until ordered. Do you have any evidence that is not the case?

kenhyderal said...

It wasn't "produced" but it did exist and it was purposely withheld from Crystal. Perhaps Attorney Meier who lurks here would like to weigh in on this. He failed to pursue the real cause of Daye's death. Had Dr. Roberts been put on the stand and been properly cross-examined she would of been forced to admit that the wound inflicted by Crystal had no nexus with the brain death of Daye. Such information would have convinced the Jury that there was no 2nd degree murder.

Anonymous said...

Kenny,

For purposes of discussion, let's assume that you are correct. Daye was an alcoholic. The delirium tremens necessitated the intubation.

We still must address the legal requirements.

You have claimed Welch (not Welsh as you have recently indicated) does not apply. However, you provide no case law. Why not?

What is the reason for your delay? Did you ask the mystery rapists to do your legal research for you?

Kenny, I don't trust your judgment. With your repeated claim that mystery rapists raped Mangum, you have shown you have no common sense. Prove your allegation.

Anonymous said...

It wasn't "produced" but it did exist and it was purposely withheld from Crystal



What evidence do you have that it existed? If you watch the trial - they specifically say it had not been produced (doesn't mean the conclusions weren't known, and what it would contain weren't known - Crystal herself told Dr. Harr about them), what proof do you have that they were lying? The Judge ordered that Dr. Roberts prepare a written report, and that it be provided when done. Why do you think that's a lie? You have any proof, or just your rantings?

I'm sure Meier lurks here, but he doesn't seem interested in engaging in back and forth with people who have no right to any information and clearly don't have a clue what they are talking about. Have you ever contacted him or e-mailed him directly with your concerns, or do you just hide behind an anonymous blog?

guiowen said...

Meier is hiding in fear. He knows Sidney will soon be suing him. What's more, Sidney will have the master debater, Kenny, backing him up. Meier will be lucky to avoid disbarment.

Lance The Supreme Poster of Enlightenment said...

Breaking news on Mike Nifong and the new William Cohan book, The Price of Silence: The Duke Lacrosse Scandal, The Power of the Elite, and the Corruption of Our Great Universities

Interesting that Cohan would take the word of Nifong regarding the beliefs of Jim Coman and Mary Winstead, rather than actually interviewing either Jim Coman and Mary Winstead

Read more here.

kenhyderal said...

Anonymous said: Have you ever contacted him or e-mailed him directly with your concerns, or do you just hide behind an anonymous blog"............I stand publically to be counted. I don't hide. I have not contacted Meier but I have contacted his criminal defence consultant Ms. Sarah Jessica Farber regarding Crystal's appeal. I'm perfectly willing to any exchange with Meier and although he no longer represents her Crystal would give her blessing to it.

kenhyderal said...

Anonymous said: "Crystal herself told Dr. Harr about them".... Crystal told Dr. Harr what she was told, that the review conducted by Dr. Roberts concurred with Dr. Nicholls. Crystal was not given the report and had no opportunity to study it. We now know, from Dr. Harr's posting, that the Roberts' report confirms Daye's death was not due to complications of the stab wound but of complications of his treatment for alcohol withdrawal.

kenhyderal said...

Anonymous said: "We still must address the legal requirements".... No, Welch is all we need, since there is no nexus between Daye's brain death and his removal from life support to the stab wound he received.

Anonymous said...

I think the reason everyone hates duke is because they treat everyone and everything like a football to be thrown around at whim and desire as long as the throw is designed to win the game, and no one or thing gets in the way of the throw, and if it does, they call foul, and then pick the ball up and throw it again without any regard to the rules or the game, just that they win - or appear to. So if the win is to create chaos, it matters less the rules or the game to them - and in their winning scheme - hopefully even less to the football or whoever participates in or watches the game.

If chaos is the win - then chaotic nonjustice is just another spin.

Anonymous said...

I guess the reason for the inherent hatred is that they demand reverance, (or else), while mocking the intelligence it would take to give reverance in the first place, and then laugh in the face of all reverance and intelligence while expecting all else to do the same, (or else), if that's what it takes to win their game.

So essentially, there is no winning their game, therefore they play so noone wins which is their win if everyone losing if they too must lose is their game.

An understanding of their game helps to restore and maintain both intelligence and reverence for that deemed worthy of reverance by most and many with the intelligence to understand winning and losing and the true nature of the game.

Since their game is political and politics in action, yet the true nature of the game is life or death to many and most regardless of politics, they appear to disregard life and death revered by intelligence in favor of their politics inherently not in favor of those with the intelligence to revere life and the right to be free from their politically led or motivated death and/or other apparent contradictions to life or destructive of that which enables life as long as it fits only their irreverant political needs in order that they can continue to play their political games so they can win or make everyone else lose too.

So therefore, while all those with the intelligence to revere that which is deemed essential to life which also inherently and naturally includes death, they throw these same revered things around as if all with intelligence must surely agree with their politics and revere them instead, even though they don't or there would be no need for their political games and manipulations to begin with that tries to ignore, destroy, or mock intelligence that inherently and naturally does not revere their deadly and destructive political games and gains made only in order that they can continue to determine that only they can win or everyone else must lose.

So, all with intelligence inherantly begin to 'hate' that which is without reverance, which ultimately is their politics of winning at all costs, irregardless.

Anonymous said...

Only if you believe Dr Harr when he says DR Roberts is lying when she concludes he died from complications related to a stab wound to the chest. She certainly didn't conclude his death was caused by DT.

Anonymous said...

Dr. Harr has made the reports available so that all can examine and draw their own conclusions based upon facts and science and reasonable law and justice. Do you only listen to what others tell you because it fits their political agendas and thus, without thought, your own?

Anonymous said...

Kenny,

I must have missed it. Where did Roberts conclude that Daye died from complications from alcohol withdrawal? The summary is inconsistent with your conclusion.

Please provide the specific reference.

Anonymous said...

WOW...If you want proof that lack of sleep destroys brain cells, just read the post from anonymous @3:31.

kenhyderal said...

@ Anonymous- 5:11 AM: Accidental esophageal Intubation in the treatment of his acute agitation due to alcohol withdrawlal

Anonymous said...

Kenny, please us, do you enjoy master debating with Sid at J4N?

kenhyderal said...

Oops typo "withdrawal"

kenhyderal said...

Anonymous said: "Kenny, please us, do you enjoy master debating with Sid at J4N?".... ????

Lance The Supreme Poster of Enlightenment said...

Ken - Dr. Roberts concluded "Mr. Daye died as a result of a chain of events that began with a stab wound to the chest and therefore I agree that the Cause of Death is Complication of a Stab Wound to the Chest."

If you have a problem with that, take it up with Dr. Roberts.

Lance The Supreme Poster of Enlightenment said...

"That statement by Dr. Roberts is as vague and ambiguous as you can get, and that is the problem with her review and with the autopsy report by Dr. Nichols. Vague to the extreme."

Take it up with Dr. Roberts.
She can be reached at 352-562-1397.

Lance The Supreme Poster of Enlightenment said...

In regards to when Dr. Roberts produced the report...While it is undated, it does state that it is attorney work product for defense attorney Daniel Meier.

I'm of the belief that Dr. Roberts discussed her findings with Attorney Vann, and when she stated that the autopsy report was essentially correct for cause of death, he asked her not to produce a written report, because the document would have been discoverable and would have proved to be favorable to the prosecution.

In all likelihood, Mangum's attorneys from Vann on were aware of Dr. Roberts' findings and chose not to have a written report produced.

Anonymous said...

Accidental esophageal Intubation in the treatment of his acute agitation due to alcohol withdrawal

Kenny,

I asked WHERE Roberts concluded that Daye died from complications from alcohol withdrawal.

I re-read the report that Sidney posted and did not find that language. WHERE is it (please provide the specific section in which it is contained and the specific location within that section)?

I am not interested in your medical diagnosis. I am not aware of your medical qualifications.

I specifically asked for the location of the diagnosis you attributed to Roberts. You failed to do so.

No, Welch is all we need

Kenny,

Walt and A Lawyer isuggested that a pre-existing condition (apparently including alcoholism) does not cut-off criminal liability. You have ignored this analysis.

I am not interested in your legal analysis. I am not aware of your legal qualifications.

I specifically asked for case law. I cannot believe that there are no comparable cases.

Kenny, I indicated earlier that I do not find your opinions to be useful. Your claim that you believe Mangum was raped by mystery rapists at the lacrosse party indicates either (i) you lack common sense or (ii) you are willing to claim anything and do not care about facts.

In either case, your personal opinion is worthless.

kenhyderal said...

Lance said: "Ken - Dr. Roberts concluded "Mr. Daye died as a result of a chain of events that began with a stab wound to the chest and therefore I agree that the Cause of Death is Complication of a Stab Wound to the Chest."....... Nexus, nexus, nexus. The chain of events, beginning with the stab wound, ended when Daye was successfully treated, without complications from the wound. itself, or the treatment thereof. The chain of events that lead to his death began with alcohol withdrawal in this chronic alcoholic which would have occurred had he been hospitalized for any reason whatsoever. Nicholls, Roberts and Duke Hospital all know that a murder charge in this instance is bogus. Dr. Harr pleaded with Duke to do the right thing and ethically admit their culpability instead of trying to protect their reputation by covering up their egregious errors and letting an innocent woman take the blame. It's not too late for all of them to do the right thing. If they don't this cover-up is, inevitably, going to give them far more grief then would taking responsibility for Daye's untimely death.

kenhyderal said...

There were no "mystery rapists" The persons that sexually assaulted Crystal Mangum were present at the party and who they are is no mystery to many. They unlawfully chose to "keep their mouth shut"

Anonymous said...

Kenny,

Are you a liar or a fool?

Anonymous said...

Kenny,

Why did Gottlieb and Himan not conduct a bona fide investigation in one of the most publicized criminal cases in durham history?

Anonymous said...

Kenny,

You didn't answer my question. WHERE in her report did Roberts conclude that Daye died from complications from alcohol withdrawal?

Did she really say that your were you lying in your response to me?

Anonymous said...

Kenny,

I apologize. I had a typo in my last question.

It should read:
Did she really say that or were you lying in your response to me?

Anonymous said...

kenny, I think the question the poster meant to ask you is why do you continue to master debate on this website?

Kenny "Mystery Rapists" Hyderal Supporter said...

Kenny:

Why do you post so often when you obviously don't care whether or not you convince other readers?

kenhyderal said...

Anonymous said: "Did she really say that or were you lying in your response to me?"........... You can read and I can read. What I read is that she, obviously, thinks Daye's esophageal intubation, that led to his, untimely and unnecessary death, which she acknowledged, was a consequence of him being stabbed by Crystal. I'm sorry that nexus does not, in reality, exist. But of course, Dr. Nicholls and Dr. Roberts know that and the conclusion they reported that this or some other vague unspecified consequence of the wound that caused Daye to end up dead was designed to keep the blame on a poor single minority Mother, thought to be of no significance, instead of on all powerful Duke.

kenhyderal said...

Anonymous said: "kenny, I think the question the poster meant to ask you is why do you continue to master debate on this website"..... A puerile and asinine attempt at humour. Also inappropriate because master and mastubari have totally different entomological derivations

kenhyderal said...

Anonymous said: "Why do you post so often when you obviously don't care whether or not you convince other readers?"........Some need a lot of repetition before they are convinced. I do care only because there are a few here worth convincing i.e. seekers of justice. P.S. Why the word "Supporter" in the appellation you invented for me?

Kenny "Mystery Rapists" Hyderal Supporter said...

Kenny,

Thanks for the clarification.

It is your opinion that Roberts and Nichols both concluded that Daye died as a result of complications from alcohol withdrawal and that the death was not connected to the stab wound. You have not consulted a medical expert.

It is your opinion that both Roberts and Nichols are covering up.

It is your opinion that Welch is not applicable. You have not consulted an attorney to determine the implications of a pre-existing condition.

It is your opinion that Shella, Vann, Holmes and Meier were all conspiring against Crystal.

It is your opinion that Walt and A Lawyer have provided a flawed legal analysis of Crystal's legal responsibility.

It is your opinion that there is no justification for the jury's failure to believe Crystal. Despite numerous statements by her that were contradicted by evidence and other witness statements, any errors are trivial and should be disregarded.

It is your opinion that Crystal was raped by non-player attendees at the lacrosse party despite a complete lack of evidence (other than Crystal's allegation).

Those who fail to accept your opinions are biased against Crystal.


P.S. My pseudonym is intended to show my support for Kenny "Mystery Rapists" Hyderal (a new nickname for you which accurately reflects the respect you deserve).

guiowen said...

kenhyderal said...

"master and mastubari have totally different entomological derivations"

Which insects are we talking about here? Is it "bees are master, while ants masturbate"?

kenhyderal said...

Ya got me Guiowen substitute etymological

kenhyderal said...

@ Kenny "Mystery Rapist" Hyderal Supporter. (who I'll hereafter refer to as KMRHS)............... Substantially yes, to all your queries, with the caveat that Shella Vann and Holmes were not involved in a conspiracy but only that they gave no priority to getting justice for Crystal. In her sexual assault, as is often the case, despite guilt, a perpetrator with a high powered defence can raise a reasonable doubt. This, combined with a deplorable police investigation and her subjection to a faulty police photo line-up, that led her to make mistaken identifications, a not uncommon occurrence, especially where recognized standards are not adhered to, led to a situation where reasonable doubt could be claimed. New evidence may be someday forthcoming.

Kenny "Mystery Rapists" Hyderal Supporter said...

Kenny:

You say you post as often as you do because "some need a lot of repetition before they are convinced."

Let me suggest a novel approach: provide evidence to support your opinions, rather than repeating the same unsupported opinion again and again and again. Many of the readers here react well to evidence.

Anonymous said...

Substantially yes, to all your queries, with the caveat that Shella Vann and Holmes were not involved in a conspiracy but only that they gave no priority to getting justice for Crystal.


Was Meier involved in a conspiracy? And if so, was it the pro-UNC, protect the ME conspiracy, or the pro-Duke, protect Duke conspiracy (Sid has said both), or is he the rare breed that cares about both Duke and UNC?

Interesting that you have talked with the 2nd chair, SarahJessica, about the appeal, since she isn't involved in that, but hey, when have you ever cared about logic?

Kenny "Mystery Rapists" Hyderal Supporter said...

Kenny:

In what you term Crystal's "sexual assault case," do you think that the many inconsistent details included in Crystal's many versions of her allegation (I know, one should not focus on "trivial" details), the lack of incriminating medical and physical evidence that in many respects contradicted her stories, the many photographs and statements provided by other witnesses may have contributed to what you term "reasonable doubt."

Indeed, the failure of the DPD to conduct a bona fide investigation in one of the most highly publicized cases in Durham's history was remarkable. I find it interesting that Nifong elected to obtain indictments and prosecute on the basis identifications from a fatally flawed identification procedure he designed and a non-investigation. I cannot understand why a man Sidney describes as an honorable public servant did not tell the DPD to do their jobs. He must have realized that the lack of evidence and Crystal's inconsistencies would become the focus of the defense.

It seems like he hung poor Crystal out to dry. That doesn't seem so honorable. Do you agree?

Anonymous said...

Page, 19, first paragraph.

kenhyderal said...

Anonymous said: "Was Meier involved in a conspiracy"...... I don't often subscribe to conspiracy theories. The only conspiracy I see in this was the organized, unrelenting and on-going attempt by the Trial Lawyers in their greedy, contingency, lawsuits on behalf of the Players to discredit Crystal using every lie exaggeration and innuendo they could covertly disseminate. Barrister Meier's defence was an abject failure because he could not show to the Jury that the only reasonable explanation for Crystal stabbing this drunken enraged madman was self defence.

Anonymous said...

I’m a personal friend of Crystal Mangum. Ever since Crystal had the temerity to report she had been raped by the entitled sons of privilege at Duke she has faced relentless vilification by them and by Trial Lawyers seeking compensation on their behalf. This has gone on relentlessly for many years, on an daily basis, in places like the blog “Duke Lacrosse Liestoppers” where she has been characterized as a mentally unstable, drug addicted prostitute. None of these people even know Crystal other then by this widely disseminated caricature. Those of us who do know her, friends, family, her pastor, her professors and her fellow students do not recognize her as this person they see so freely vilified. The wide acceptance of these slanders made it difficult for her to find accommodation, especially after the arson charge she faced but was not convicted of. With three children, she felt bad about having to impose on friends to give her a place to stay. That guilt, caused her to accept offers by men like Walker and Daye. Walker suffers from schizophrenia and admits he initiated that confrontation. Daye was a chronic alcoholic. His self-admitted motive was a jealous rage. Crystal has, absolutely, no motive other then defending herself, to stab Daye. In fact, she was grateful to him for allowing her to share his apartment. I pray that there will be some grounds, accepted, for an appeal and she can get a new trial, where that jury will see the obvious.

Anonymous said...

Barrister Meier's defence was an abject failure because he could not show to the Jury that the only reasonable explanation for Crystal stabbing this drunken enraged madman was self defence.



You watched the trial - what would you have argued differently in the self-defense portion? Self defense was argued heavily, and the jury simply disagreed, due to the inconsistencies in Mangum's testimony and the physical evidence, most likely.

What brilliant strategy would you have used to make them see self-defense?

kenhyderal said...

I would have pointed out the absurdity of the idea that a vengeful Crystal attacked and murdered the frightened and fleeing Daye.

kenhyderal said...

Anonymous @ 4:42 has plagiarized a post I made on Sarah Jessica Farber's blog.

Kenny "Mystery Rapists" Hyderal Supporter said...

Kenny:

I trust that the irony in your 9:06 post was intentional.

In the same post that you complain about the plan of the defendants to discredit Crystal using "every lie, exaggeration and innuendo," you describe Daye as a "drunken enraged madman."

Anonymous said...

kenhyderal said...

I would have pointed out the absurdity of the idea that a vengeful Crystal attacked and murdered the frightened and fleeing Daye.



If you watched the trial, that was pointed out - that it made no sense for Crystal to think she was free to leave, or for Daye to suddenly decide to let her go, since if he was really wanting her to leave he would have just let her stay in the bathroom until the help she was calling came.

That was all pointed out - I'm just curious what brilliant words you would have used to convince them, since they weren't convinced the first time, with that same argument.

Anonymous said...

"Defense demands an immediate mistrial" as soon as the jury was found to be corrupted before the trial even began.

Anonymous said...

I thought that Meier made a motion when the juror misconduct was discovered.

Anonymous said...

I thought that Meier made a motion when the juror misconduct was discovered.


He did. He also made a motion when the issues with Nichols were discovered. The Judge denied them.

Anonymous said...

"Defense demands an immediate mistrial and change of venue to another state!"

kenhyderal said...

KMRHS said: "In the same post that you complain about the plan of the defendants to discredit Crystal using "every lie, exaggeration and innuendo," you describe Daye as a "drunken enraged madman."................ Fact; Daye's blood alcohol was 296 mg/dl. Fact; he kicked in a bathroom door and dragged Crystal out by the hair. No lie exaggeration or innuendo there.

Anonymous said...

"Madman" is not innuendo?

Anonymous said...

madman is a phrase commonly used to describe an enraged person doing stupid things regardless of their gender (madwoman just doesn't haven't the same ring - like a huwoman doesn't to human ... lesson whatever for the day)

kenhyderal said...

Anonymous said: "That was all pointed out - I'm just curious what brilliant words you would have used to convince them, since they weren't convinced the first time, with that same argument".... I'm not a Lawyer and I have no particular oratorical skill but I would have stressed the issue of Daye's alcoholism and how that frequently relates to violent behaviour. I would have stressed his admission of jealousy and his feeling of being disrespected by Crystal whom he felt the assistance he provided her and her children gave him control over her. I would have pursued his prowess as a knife thrower. I would have ridiculed the prosecutor tripping up Crystal on her memory of second by second events using the evidence collected at cataloged at the scene and declaring her a liar when it did not coincide to her memory, while at the same time ignoring the big picture of a drunken enraged Daye attacking her. I would have ridiculed the idea that a frightened Daye was fleeing his own apartment in fear his life with Crystal pursuing him with murderous intent. Well I could go on and on but you get the idea,

Anonymous said...

Mangum is a convicted murderer. She is going to spend at least the next decade in prison WHERE SHE BELONGS. Good riddance! The air in Durham is a little cleaner.

Anonymous said...

Same old worn out dribble from a delusional man who thinks he is clever and spends/waste time churning out LOSER civil suits in an attempt to extort. Same old crap about conspiracy. Same old lies. Same old boring trash about a common substance abusing, child abusing, alley cat who is now locked up for killing a man who made the mistake of being kind to her. Same old bullshit obfuscation and tilting at windmills.........same old silly old man..........
Years from now when Mangum gets out of prison...maybe she will finally learn some sense of personal responsibility. I doubt it but maybe.....

Nifong Supporter said...


Anonymous Anonymous said...
Dr. Harr thank you for sharing Dr. Robert's autopsy report on your blog. Do you know how well Ms. Mangum's request for an investigation into the autopsy reports is progressing? How long will it take for the appeals court to give their decisions?


I don't know if anyone has received a direct request from Mangum for an investigation into the autopsy report, but I have been trying to convince the Attorney General's Office, D.A.'s offices, to investigate for more than a year. They have refused, even though I recently filed a motion to compel the Attorney General's Office to conduct an investigation.

As far as the appeal goes, it is my understanding that the appeals attorney has just recently received the transcript. How long it will take in the legal process for an appeal to be filed and heard, I do not know.

Anonymous said...

Isn't it interesting how Harr picks out one phrase regarding the intubation and COMPLETELY ignores the rest of the summary paragraph.....which, for the millionth time....completely supports the Nichols autopsy findings and completely supports the verdict. Read the summary conclusion which has been quoted directly and entirely on this site....by others. It's a big fat zero for Harr. Of course, since Roberts is on the dark side and a member of the evil white privilege klan, out to keep Mangum in prison forever, we all know she is to be discounted by the whacko Harr. Anybody who does not support his dumbass lunacy is obviously a member of the, what was it, the jihad.....which, of course, is an insult to muslims.
I think Mangum has only two fairly weak appeal grounds......one, the 404 which was let in, and two, the juror issue, up front. And she is going to lose all her appeals. You did the crime, sister, now serve the time.....and be glad you got off without life.

Nifong Supporter said...


Anonymous said...
No, it existed alright. You are wrong. That undated report was not produced only after Judge Ridgeway's order. It was produced when it was first commissioned by Vann and it was purposely withheld from Crystal.


What proof do you have of this? Personally, I tend to believe that people weren't perjuring themselves in Court, and to Crystal (who has admitted she was repeatedly told there wasn't a written report), and that it wasn't produced until ordered. Do you have any evidence that is not the case?


Unfortunately there was no date on the report to indicate as to when it was produced. It is described as being a work product for Dan Meier, who began representing Mangum two months prior to her conviction.

I don't know the truth, but my belief is that the report was generated in a timely manner after Vann had acquired her services and the main body of the report has been withheld from Mangum until the third day of her trial.

Nifong Supporter said...


Lance The Supreme Poster of Enlightenment said...
"That statement by Dr. Roberts is as vague and ambiguous as you can get, and that is the problem with her review and with the autopsy report by Dr. Nichols. Vague to the extreme."

Take it up with Dr. Roberts.
She can be reached at 352-562-1397.


Sorry, but I'm not going to harass the lady. Thanks for the number, anyway.

Nifong Supporter said...


Anonymous Anonymous said...
I’m a personal friend of Crystal Mangum. Ever since Crystal had the temerity to report she had been raped by the entitled sons of privilege at Duke she has faced relentless vilification by them and by Trial Lawyers seeking compensation on their behalf. This has gone on relentlessly for many years, on an daily basis, in places like the blog “Duke Lacrosse Liestoppers” where she has been characterized as a mentally unstable, drug addicted prostitute. None of these people even know Crystal other then by this widely disseminated caricature. Those of us who do know her, friends, family, her pastor, her professors and her fellow students do not recognize her as this person they see so freely vilified. The wide acceptance of these slanders made it difficult for her to find accommodation, especially after the arson charge she faced but was not convicted of. With three children, she felt bad about having to impose on friends to give her a place to stay. That guilt, caused her to accept offers by men like Walker and Daye. Walker suffers from schizophrenia and admits he initiated that confrontation. Daye was a chronic alcoholic. His self-admitted motive was a jealous rage. Crystal has, absolutely, no motive other then defending herself, to stab Daye. In fact, she was grateful to him for allowing her to share his apartment. I pray that there will be some grounds, accepted, for an appeal and she can get a new trial, where that jury will see the obvious.


Thank you for sharing your personal views as a friend of Crystal's. They are similar to mine.

Nifong Supporter said...


Anonymous said...
"Defense demands an immediate mistrial and change of venue to another state!"


I would take it a step farther and say that justice demands that Mangum be immediately freed and the conviction overturned. The basis for this would be the fraudulent autopsy report by the medical examiner upon which the murder charge is based.

Nifong Supporter said...


Anonymous said...
I thought that Meier made a motion when the juror misconduct was discovered.


He did. He also made a motion when the issues with Nichols were discovered. The Judge denied them.


I am unaware of Meier making a motion that the biased juror be removed. Never read anything about it in the newspaper, and the online audio of the trail did not contain anything about it.

Anonymous said...

Lance The Supreme Poster of Enlightenment said...
"That statement by Dr. Roberts is as vague and ambiguous as you can get, and that is the problem with her review and with the autopsy report by Dr. Nichols. Vague to the extreme."

Take it up with Dr. Roberts.
She can be reached at 352-562-1397.

Lance:
You should know by now that Sid isn't going to waste a second of his time or spend a penny of his money advancing any of the ludicrous claims he espouses on this blog. He knows better than that. This blog is about Sid. What he posts is click bait designed to draw attention to him.

Anonymous said...

Lance The Supreme Poster of Enlightenment said...
"That statement by Dr. Roberts is as vague and ambiguous as you can get, and that is the problem with her review and with the autopsy report by Dr. Nichols. Vague to the extreme."

Take it up with Dr. Roberts.
She can be reached at 352-562-1397.

Lance:
You should know by now that Sid isn't going to waste a second of his time or spend a penny of his money advancing any of the ludicrous claims he espouses on this blog. He knows better than that. This blog is about Sid. What he posts is click bait designed to draw attention to him.

Anonymous said...

If anybody ever needed a literary Depends, it's Harr.....incontinence of mind, I believe the phrase goes.....to describe the constant dribbling out of waste that is suitable only for disposal in the nearest mental toilet.
Let us not forget that Harr has a long history of filing lawsuits, getting into trouble, blaming others and generally being a nobody who desperately wants to be somebody.

guillermo owen said...

Kenhyderal,
Instead of telling us how you would have saved Crystal if you were her lawyer, you should try to think about the things you COULD have done to help her. Back in 2010, when she got into trouble by burning clothes and threatening Walker, you might have explained to her that she had to learn to control her temper. You might have explained to her that all the drugs she was taking made her lose her senses.
Instead, you insisted that she was a perfect woman who was only doing what was necessary to defend herself. You and your friends were able to get her out of trouble that time, but this led to the events of 2011. Once again she got high -- whether on alcohol or some other drugs, I don't know -- and once again lost her temper and stabbed her friend. She probably didn't mean to kill him, but her actions did in fact lead to his death.
Now she's paying for this. It's kind of late, but you might try, at this point, to knock some sense into her. She might be able to lead a reasonable life once she gets out of the place you have led her to.
Of course, you won't take my advice. It's cruel, or insincere, or something.

kenhyderal said...

Guillermo Owen said :Once again she got high"....... Absolutely untrue. "Crystal Mangum does not use illicit drugs or abuse alcohol. Your belief that this is the case is a result of the many years of character assassination waged against her by those wishing to discredit her in order to bolster their greedy lawsuits. Crystal stabbed Daye in self defence. It was he who was intoxicated one (296mg/dl BAR)

guillermo owen said...

Just as I expected, you won't take advice. More's the pity, especially for Crystal.
If you want to double down on your bets, that's fine with me. But just so you understand, no one whose opinion matters believes your claim that Crystal stabbed Reginald in self-defense.

kenhyderal said...

Anonymous said: "The air in Durham is a little cleaner"..... The foul stench of corruption hangs over Durham poisoning the minds of many of it's citizens and making the place a national disgrace. Thankfully there are some fighting to clear the air of such blatent injustice

kenhyderal said...

Guillermo owen said; "no one whose opinion matters believes your claim that Crystal stabbed Reginald in self-defense" ... It's a pathetic situation that so many are so brain-washed. It's a testament to the effectiveness of the Goebbels like propaganda campaign waged on a daily basis, for 8 years against Crystal. G.O., you do not know Crystal and you have been grievously misled about her

Kenny "Mystery Rapists" Hyderal Supporter said...

Guillermo Owen:

In reality, Kenny "Mystery Rapists" Hyderal could have given Crystal useful advice in 2006 and 2007. After it was clear that Crystal's allegation that she had been raped by the defendants was false, Kenny should have counseled her that it is wrong to falsely accuse other people of felonies. When the DNA tests found multiple males other than the lacrosse players, Kenny should have suggested that she may not be making the best choices in life. Having sex with a lot of men she doesn't know well has some risks.

Instead, Kenny invented a ridiculous story about mystery rapists that he insists explains the unidentified DNA and maintains the plausibility of her rape allegation. He suggests that a preposterous story must be accepted as true as long as no one can prove it cannot possible be true.

Crystal learns this lesson and applies it in her arson and murder trials. Unfortunately, she learns the hard way that only her "friends" think that way.

Anonymous said...

Everyone learned how corrupt duke and the duke / durham / nc justice systems is, and no-one knows for sure what happened at that party still, although everyone is reminded to wonder about it forever.

kenhyderal said...

KMRHA said" He suggests that a preposterous story must be accepted as true as long as no one can prove it cannot possible be true"...... A proper investigation to identify the source of the DNA extracted from sperm could have proved or disproved that Crystal was raped. It was never done. Crystal's consensual history, easily verifiable, was followed up on but no serious attempt was made to identify all who were present. Once the Player's DNA was not found the greedy lawsuits, dependent on destroying Crystal's character and credibility began, in earnest.

kenhyderal said...

KMRHS: said: "Having sex with a lot of men she doesn't know well has some risks".... Crystal was not, is not and never will be a prostitute and to suggest that is prosecutable libel. Crystal has never engaged in sex with anyone she did not know; ever period. Like G.O. you've bought into the lies told about her.

Anonymous said...

"Crystal has never engaged in sex with anyone she did not know; ever period. Like G.O. you've bought into the lies told about her."

Absolutely right. She just knows A LOT of people. Some at the same time.

Anonymous said...

I'd say having a paid driver running you from one date to another,with strangers, in motels where you engage in use of a vibrator on yourself in front of a stranger (by her own admission)......and GET PAID FOR IT.....makes you pretty much a whore. Having the DNA of at least FIVE different males in or on you (none of them LAX guys), also pretty much either makes you a whore....or just reallllllyyyyy friendly. Coming home to Daye's apartment with several hundred dollars after a night out, being friendly, also pretty much confirms your occupation. Of course, Kenny Hissy can tell us Mangum isn't a whore. that's fine. He can also tell us Mangum has never abused drugs or alcohol. that's fine, too. Kenny does have a point though....Mangum has never been arrested for selling it.

Anonymous said...

If everyone ignores you because your a very sick evil duke troll, how many days will it take for you to repeat your favored hate speech rant against Ms. Mangum?

Anonymous said...

Apparently everyone didn't ignore me......silly.
Signed, evil duke troll who lives under a bridge, in a van, and eats govmint cheese.....:)

Anonymous said...

"Crystal has never engaged in sex with anyone she did not know".....interesting choice of words..."Know"...as in the biblical use of the word, Ken Edwards? Apparently our now convicted murderess has "known" several men at the same time. I wonder just exactly how Sister managed to come to Daye's apartment with several hundred dollars after going out "on a date"? I think she said it was from "male friends". Isn't that sweet. I think most people would agree that a woman who allows herself to be photographed in a bra and panties on a web site for escorts called the "Bunny Hole"....a woman who admits to using a vibrator on herself in the presence of a "client" in a hotel room.....a woman who lays on the floor at a party with her legs spread while another woman pretends to penetrate her with an object (as was photographed).....is giving sexual favors for money. A woman who has multiple male samples apparently has no issue with sleeping around, according to you for free. Pardon me while I laugh.....

kenhyderal said...

@ Anonymous 4:38: Crystal worked for an agency that booked exotic dancers. The money she collected less her commission went to that Agency. Three samples of DNA, extracted from sperm, which were found and which were not not explained by her consensual sexual history must have come from a sexual assault she endured after she was administered an incapacitating substance in a drink she was given. A jealous Daye did not like it that she was paid to give exotic performances for customers of the Escort Agency she worked for. The Trial Lawyers attempted, in vain, to find anyone at all who even claimed they paid Crystal for sex and when they could not they resorted to disseminating lies and innuendo, bought by gullible people like you

Anonymous said...

Hilarious......do you believe in the tooth fairy, kenny?

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