justice4nifong: Mangum v. DHHS, et al.: Motion for Expedited Hearing

Saturday, August 27, 2022

Mangum v. DHHS, et al.: Motion for Expedited Hearing

97 comments:

Nifong Supporter said...: Anonymous said...
I’ve only heard of motions for expedited hearings used in child custody cases, and once when a soldier was getting deployed. Why don’t you share these documents?

August 27, 2022 at 5:05 AM

Hey, Anony.

Took time from working on my shar-video to upload the motion. When I last checked on Friday, August 26, 2022, there had been no response from the Attorney General's Office.; August 27, 2022 at 6:37 PM
Nifong Supporter said...: Dr. Caligari said...
This case is a dud as far as I can see. Again, I would welcome an attorney's analysis. I am not nor do I claim any expertise in this subject matter. Maybe I am missing something.

Abe's analysis is spot on. The case is yet another attempt to collaterally attack the criminal conviction through a civil suit against the wrong parties.

August 25, 2022 at 8:31 AM

Hey, Dr. Caligari.

As you can see, this motion is designed to expedite movement in Mangum's case... something that the State doesn't want to do. All that Mangum wants done is a review of the autopsy report. Is that asking too much? Especially in light of Dr. Wecht's report, the fact that Dr. Nichols committed perjury etc. The State doesn't even have a written review of the autopsy report by Nichols.

The only excuse given thus far for not reviewing the autopsy report is "that it would be inappropriate." What is that supposed to mean?

One last thing, Dr. Nichols' BIG LIE conclusion is that Daye "died secondary to complications of a stab wound to his chest." What complication(s)? He never mentioned any... that's because there were none.; August 27, 2022 at 6:45 PM
Nifong Supporter said...: Anonymous Anonymous said...
Sid wants them to do a review - but who really thinks that if they did a review, and agreed with the conclusion reached by Dr. Nichols, and disagree with Dr. Wecht, that Sid would accept it?

He says he just wants them to review it, but we all know that's a lie.

August 24, 2022 at 4:34 PM

Hey, Anony.

Answer me this: Was Daye's spleen removed during emergency surgery as Dr. Nichols testified or was it present at autopsy as suggested by his autopsy report?

Answer me this: Name the supposed "complication(s)" from the stab wound that Dr. Nichols claimed was responsible for Daye's death.; August 27, 2022 at 6:57 PM
Nifong Supporter said...: Anonymous Anonymous said...
Kenhyderal -- The "wooden pieces" comment is based on a statement from Crystal Mangum to William Cohan published in Vanity Fair.

The comment regarding not setting Milton Walker's clothes on fire is from an ABC article (with link provided).

How do you consider pointing out either of these statements as "Relentlessly and remorselessly attacked and pilloried", when they are simply referring to false statements made by Crystal Mangum?

The question asked is simple -- You state "I believe Crystal Mangum".

Did you believe at any time the 2 statements identified?

Do you believe them now?

August 24, 2022 at 9:09 AM; August 27, 2022 at 6:58 PM
Nifong Supporter said...: Anonymous Anonymous said...
Hmmm -- Let's say Sid somehow manages to win this lolsuit...What, after the order from NHHS, the OCME produces a written report that states:
"The Daye autopsy report has been reviewed and no changes or amendments are needed".

The report is presented to the DA's office, and a copy is given to Mangum.

This meets all the relief that NHHS is able to grant.

Then what?

August 24, 2022 at 8:48 AM

Hey, Anony.

Dr. Wecht's report was eight pages in length. The report on review of the autopsy conducted by DHHS and/or OCME should be more than a couple of paragraphs on a single page. It is imperative that any report include the supposed "complication(s)" from the knife wound. Also, the esophageal intubation and its effects should be explained... something which Dr. Nichols' autopsy report ignored.; August 27, 2022 at 7:05 PM
Nifong Supporter said...: Anonymous Anonymous said...
There is no basis for a court to order an agency of another branch of the government to do something that is entirely within that agency's sole discretion to do or not do.

That being said, DHHS stated that they did review the autopsy report, and they stand by it. I don't see how a judge can force them to review or change an official report or conclusion of a government agency from a different branch of government - even if he disagrees with the report/conclusions.

Like you, I don't think this is a federal court issue, much less a Constitutional one.

Sid is once again trying to thwart justice by attempting to collaterally attack Mangum's conviction thru a civil action in a different court involving different parties. That strategy will not succeed. No federal court judge is going to fall for that trick.

As far as I can see, sorting thru the irrelevant paragraphs Sid inserts in every pleading he drafts/files, Sid does not have a case. The only exception I take with your analysis is your statement that you see no "why the judge will rule against CGM im the Mangum v. Kinsley case." That's not how it works. A person presenting a claim must PROVE he is entitled to a ruling in his favor. The question is whether there is a reason for the court to rule in favor of Sid/Mangum. I don't see how they have come close to meeting their burden or how a court could possibly rule that the DHHS MUST conduct an additional review of the autopsy report.

Even if, by some stretch of the imagination, Sid got the court to order a review of the report and that the findings of that review to be transmitted to the DA, the DHHS is simply going to stand by the report. So, what's point to all this?

This case is a dud as far as I can see. Again, I would welcome an attorney's analysis. I am not nor do I claim any expertise in this subject matter. Maybe I am missing something.

Abe Froman
Chicago, IL

August 24, 2022 at 8:45 AM

Hey, Abe.

There was no written report by anyone at DHHS or OCME regarding an autopsy review on Nichols' autopsy. A written report should include, at the very least, the identification of the alleged "complication(s)."

The problem is that the DHHS and OCME have been refusing to review the Nichols autopsy report. That's problematic when one considers the review of the report by Dr. Wecht contradicts the Nichols autopsy.

Answer me this: Who is more credible... Dr. Nichols (who was fired), or world-renowned forensic pathologist and medicolegal expert analyst Dr. Wecht?; August 27, 2022 at 7:19 PM
Nifong Supporter said...: Anonymous Anonymous said...
Abe --

Sid reads "The Chief Medical Examiner shall have authority to amend a medical examiner death certificate" as "The Chief Medical Examiner MUST amend a medical examiner death certificate".

Sid can force the CME to review and amend the Daye Autopsy report as much as I can force Sid to stop filing ridiculous lawsuits.

August 23, 2022 at 1:37 PM; August 27, 2022 at 7:20 PM
A Durham Man said...: Kenny,

Apparently, Sid is also interested in your answers to the questions raised by the poster on August 24 at 9:09 AM. Why won’t you answer?; August 28, 2022 at 5:16 AM
Anonymous said...: Sid - why did you post the 6:58 and 7:20 comments?; August 28, 2022 at 6:56 AM
Anonymous said...: Answer the questions, Kenny.; August 28, 2022 at 8:55 PM
Anonymous said...: Kenny,

We’re waiting to hear from you.; August 29, 2022 at 4:33 AM
guiowen said...: Anony at 8/29, 4:33:
Please don't tease Kenny! It's just that, because of context, he misunderstands or forgets half of everything.; August 29, 2022 at 11:17 AM
kenhyderal said...: @ all trying to catch Crystal in an "I gotcha" : Keep in mind she was acquitted of setting fire to Walker's clothes. Also keep in mind Walker was a reluctant witness against Crystal and stated he was as much to blame as was she. Also remember it's been established that jeering cat-calling drunken Lacrosse Players shouted threats about broomstick sodomizing at Crystal and Roberts causing them to terminate their dance and flee into a locked bathroom. Also keep in mind the statements of a Sexual Assault Nurse Tara Levicy, which were key to the investigation and DA Nifong's subsequent indictments. The probable cause affidavit for a search warrant of the medical records stated: “ The medical records and interviews that were obtained by subpoena revealed that the victim had signs, symptoms, and injuries consistent with being raped and sexually assaulted vaginally and anally. Furthermore, the SANE nurse stated the injuries and her behavior were consistent with a traumatic experience.”; August 29, 2022 at 3:06 PM
dhall said...: Oh Kenny….You still haven’t answered the questions.

Do you believe wooden pieces were found in CGM’s anus?

Did you believe CGM when she said she didn’t ser Walker’s clothes on fire? Did you believe her when she said she did?

Also, keep in mind CGM wasn’t acquitted - the jury deadlocked and the ADA made the decision not to prosecute.; August 29, 2022 at 10:13 PM
kenhyderal said...: @dhall: That was Crystal's interpretation of what S.A.N.E. Nurse Levicy reported. Not surprising after the frightening comments hurled at her about sodomization with a broomstick . Keep in mind she was impaired by being covertly administered a noxious date rape drug. As to the bathtub fire, at the time, Crystal basically said ,"not guilty". Later, after obtaing Counsel she admitted to doing it but pled said not guilty of arson because of the circumstances. By the standard you apply to her, anyone pleading not guilty and later admitting guilt is a liar.; August 30, 2022 at 6:31 PM
Anonymous said...: Answer the questions, Kenny.; August 31, 2022 at 4:45 AM
Anonymous said...: In connection with the Milton Walker case, Mangum was convicted of contributing to the delinquency of a juvenile, injury to personal property (for setting fire to Milton Walker's clothes) and resisting a public officer. The jury deadlocked on the felony arson charge and the DA opted not to expend the resources necessary to re-try her.

The issue in the arson case was whether the fire she set in the bathtub to burn Mr. Walker's clothes rose to the level of arson with respect to the building Mangum set the fire in. There is no issue that Mangum set fire to and burned Mr. Walker's clothes. She was convicted of that by a unanimous jury. The only issue was whether or not that constituted arson. The jury could not agree that it did.

Also, it should be noted that Mangum was sentenced to 88 days on jail in connection with her crimes against Mr. Walker, including setting fire to his clothes.

Kenny lies when he claims Mangum did not set fire to Mr. Walker's clothes. She was convicted of doing so and served time in jail for it.

This is not a case of confusion by kenny. It is an outright lie and an attempt to mislead and obfuscate. kenny should never be trusted. About anything. Ever.

Abe Froman
Chicago, IL; August 31, 2022 at 6:03 AM
guiowen said...: Abe,
You shouldn't accuse Kenny of lying. I know he never lies, because he told me so. The problem is that, because of context, he misunderstands or forgets half of everything.; August 31, 2022 at 11:05 AM
kenhyderal said...: @ Abe: 8-31-22 6:03 AM: Can you quote the lie I,supposedly, told?; August 31, 2022 at 1:32 PM
Anonymous said...: Abe,

Thanks for calling out Kenny and setting the record straight.; August 31, 2022 at 3:20 PM
dhall said...: The SAER form contains sections for the SANE nurse to document which parts of the sexual assault exam was performed (It's basically check-off boxes and "fill in the blank" spaces).

Neither Levicy nor Dr. Julie Manly documented that they found any physical evidence of injuries to Mangum's rectal area.

Why?

In MCFADYEN et al v. DUKE UNIVERSITY et al (para. 302-7), we find that the SAE was never completed because Mangum refused to allow the exam to continue.

The SAER form contains sections for documenting that blood and urine samples are taken for toxicology tests, and for GHB (if any date rape drugs are suspected).

That section was not completed (MCFADYEN et al v. DUKE UNIVERSITY et al).

So...Given that the exam was never completed:

How did Crystal Mangum interpret that the SANE report indicated that she had been...rectally injured, and that pieces of wood were found?

Blood and urine samples were not performed, where's the proof that a "noxious date rape drug" was administered?

(If anyone has resources that contradict these statements from McFadyen et al, plaease share them -- Well, except for any from Dr. Harr, that is ).; August 31, 2022 at 3:42 PM
kenhyderal supporter said...: Dr. Harr,

Several posters are asking kenhyderal “gotcha questions.” Please apply the kenhyderal supporter doctrine and ban those posters.; August 31, 2022 at 5:21 PM
Anonymous said...: kenny,

You said, "Keep in mind she was acquitted of setting fire to Walker's clothes."

That is a lie. Mangum was convicted of injury to personal property for setting fire to Walker's clothes. The jury was deadlocked on whether the fire Mangum set to Walker's clothes also constituted the separate and different crime of arson. The DA elected not to re-try Mangum on that charge.

I am not getting into this game with you. You are a liar. You know it. We know it. If you want to stop being called a liar, then stop lying.; September 1, 2022 at 4:03 AM
Anonymous said...: The anonymous post on 9/1/22 at 4:03 AM was from me, Abe Froman.

Abe Froman
Chicago, IL; September 1, 2022 at 7:46 AM
guiowen said...: Kenhyderal,
Why don't you do as I tell you?
1. Explain to them that you never lie.
2. Explain that, because of context, you get many things wrong.
3. Tell them that I can tell them how honest you are.

This way you can avoid the horrible ad hominem argument "you are a liar."
Aren't you lucky that I am here to help you?; September 1, 2022 at 10:00 AM
kenhyderal said...: @ 8-31-22 & 9-1-22 Posters; You guys remind me of "pit-bull" Prosecutor Coggins Franks' labelling of Crystal as a liar, before the jury,for misspeaking. You're awfully free at throwing around perjoratives and you love playing games in semantics. Pointing out technical truth with bad intent is worse that outright lying something that neither Crystal, Dr. Harr or I engage in; September 1, 2022 at 10:15 AM
dhall said...: If you're referring to my comments on 8-31, there are no instances of "throwing around perjoratives and...playing games in semantics."

You've intentionally misrepresented the argument to make it easier for you to attack. There's a name for that.

I will agree with you, I believe you, Crystal Mangum, and Dr. Harr feel that outright lying is better than pointing out technical truth.**

**See how I'm misrepresenting your argument to make it easier to attack?; September 1, 2022 at 2:49 PM
Anonymous said...: Duke in the news and Crystal Mangum mentioned in the discussion (around the 20 minute mark):

https://youtu.be/lNj1ibtXLmw

Shemeka Michelle is my hero.; September 3, 2022 at 8:40 AM
kenhyderal supporter said...: kenhyderal does not lie. A number of years ago, he provided evidence from reports prepared by Dr. Manley and Ms. Levicy confirming that splinters were removed from the victim.; September 3, 2022 at 10:44 AM
Prince Humperdinck said...: A Response in Opposition to Mangum’s motion for expedited hearing has been filed.; September 3, 2022 at 2:48 PM
kenhyderal said...: Dr. Harr, did you receive my reply to dhall?; September 3, 2022 at 2:53 PM
kenhyderal said...: @ Dr. Harr I take it the reply to dhall got lost. I'll try and repost it.; September 4, 2022 at 8:21 AM
Anonymous said...: Kenny,

Was this another one of your plagiarized posts? Sid may be on to your little game.; September 4, 2022 at 8:39 AM
kenhyderal said...: @dhall 9-1-22 2:49 PM. Yeah, very tricky. It's a strategy used by barristers to confuse juries by mixing up a wittness, then labelling them a liar. Q." Were you facing left? " A. "Yes" Q. But you said you were facing the door? Were you lying then or are you lying now? " Labelling that bad intent is not a misrepresentation. No wonder most Americans consider Lawyers to be "shysters" As to the toxicology, Crystal was tested for alcohol cocaine,heroin and GHB; all negative. Her symptoms wre absolutely indicitive of the date rape drug choral hydrate, rapid onset and short acting. It's the old "Micky Finn" used to recruit sailors. Render them unconcious throw them aboard and an hour later they have recovered but are miles off shore; September 4, 2022 at 9:10 AM
kenhyderal said...: @dhall 9-1-22 2:49 PM. Yeah, very tricky. It's a strategy used by barristers to confuse juries by mixing up a wittness, then labelling them a liar. Q." Were you facing left? " A. "Yes" Q. But you said you were facing the door? Were you lying then or are you lying now? " Labelling that bad intent is not a misrepresentation. No wonder most Americans consider Lawyers to be "shysters" As to the toxicology, Crystal was tested for alcohol cocaine,heroin and GHB; all negative. Her symptoms wre absolutely indicitive of the date rape drug choral hydrate, rapid onset and short acting. It's the old "Micky Finn" used to recruit sailors. Render them unconcious throw them aboard and an hour later they have recovered but are miles off shore; September 4, 2022 at 9:12 AM
dhall said...: Kenhyderal- The only reference I can find regarding toxicology was MCFADYEN et al v. DUKE UNIVERSITY et al.

It states the SAE, including toxicology, was never completed by either Levicy or Manly.

I’m certainly open to correction- I stated that when I posted my comment.

Rather than offering a contradictory source, we get your opinion. Can you cite a source for your information?; September 4, 2022 at 7:46 PM
Anonymous said...: You lied about Mangum being acquitted of burning Mr. Walker's clothes. It doesn't matter which way you were facing and it has nothing to do with lawyers. You got caught in a lie. Again.
Tests revealed no date rape drugs in Mangum. However, her symptoms were consistent with her mixing alcohol with her meds - something that actually happened.
There's no need to fabricate another scenario to explain the obvious reason for her condition, or expect anyone to take you seriously if you do. Everyone knows what happened. Mangum got caught in an obvious lie. Like you, she refuses to acknowledge or correct it. Like you, no one believes her.

Abe Froman
Chicago, IL; September 4, 2022 at 8:51 PM
Anonymous said...: Kenny,

What negative toxicology reports are you relying upon?; September 5, 2022 at 6:15 AM
Anonymous said...: Kenhyderal simply changing the topic once he sees he’s losing the argument.; September 5, 2022 at 6:51 AM
dhall said...: My apologies for missing these references regarding the toxicology (or lack thereof) report:

Herald-Sun:
“Medical records of the alleged victim in the Duke lacrosse rape case suggest she might not have been tested for drugs or alcohol, according to a defense filing Monday...

…The nurse who filled out a report on that exam indicated no toxicology tests were performed, according to a defense motion filed Monday….

…Defense attorneys said there was no toxicology information contained in the 1,278 pages of evidence turned over by the DA's office last Thursday, May 18th.”

WRAL.com reported:

"If there was a toxicology report available, it would've been included in the discovery I handed over to the defense," Nifong told WRAL on Monday.

Nifong told WRAL he had turned over all the evidence he has to-date and that when any new reports or documents come in, they too, would be handed over to the defense

News Observer:
“The evidence provided to the lawyers includes mention of a blood sample and cheek swab taken from the woman, but a nurse trained in sexual assault examination specifically noted that toxicology samples were not collected, according to Seligmann's court papers filed Monday.”

There was also no mention of wooden pieces found on or inside of Mangum in the documents handed over by Nifong in May 2006, nor in any other results handed over to defense afterward. That story was never reported until Mangum told it to William Cohan in 2014.; September 5, 2022 at 8:54 AM
kenhyderal said...: @ Abe 9-4-22 8:51 Yes, because the physicality of the dance performances caused her musculo-skeletal injuries, she was prescribed by her Dr. the muscle relaxant Flexeril and told to take it one an hour or so before her performance. Her Pharmacist indicated to her it should be used with caution if she was drinking. A standard warning, for liability purposes, to any prescribed this drug. She had, though, often had a drink or two prior to taking her Flexeril and never had any untoward effects. Shortly after having a drink given her by a Player she became semi-concious. Roberts and the Neighbor confirmed she arrived sober and the rapid onset just following been given this drink is highly characteristic of the date rape drug chloral hydrate which, unlike GHB, at the time was hard to test for because of it's rapid metabolism. Somethinng at the time rapists were acutely aware of.; September 5, 2022 at 9:26 AM
A Durham Man said...: Kenny,

Did you lie again regarding the negative drug test?; September 5, 2022 at 11:08 AM
Anonymous said...: I stand corrected on the toxicology reports. I recalled previous mention of a negative tox report. I must have been mistaken. I should have checked before I assumed that there was a tox report and the report came back negative.

Nice work, dhall.

Abe Froman
Chicago, IL; September 5, 2022 at 12:04 PM
Doogie Howser said...: Kenny,

We have been down this road before. Walt has documented previously the statements of Crystal’s driver, who confirmed that she was impaired before she arrived at the party.; September 5, 2022 at 4:13 PM
Anonymous said...: http://dig.abclocal.go.com/wtvd/dukeplayerslawsuit_pt2.pdf

The facts of the “first 48 hours” (as confirmed by testimony, eye witness, photographic, video, police and medical reports) begin on paragraph 194.

In typical fashion, none of Kenhyderal’s statements are remotely accurate.

I would ask you, if you weren’t already aware of this, to pay special attention to paragraphs 234-257.

I firmly believe that the threat of involuntary commitment and fear of the subsequent actions by DSS are what lead to the initial rape allegation.; September 5, 2022 at 4:37 PM
kenhyderal supporter said...: I believe Crystal told kenhyderal about the negative drug test. That’s all the evidence kenhyderal needs. He believes all victims.; September 5, 2022 at 4:46 PM
dhall said...: Kenhyderal, you claim that Crystal Mangum “became semi-concious” after 1 drink, and that she arrived sober.

Are you aware of her visit to the UNC Hospital ED on 14 March 2006? Are you aware that the reason she gave there for not being prescribed pain medication while being treated at DUMC was that she drank so much alcohol the night before that she “didn’t feel pain”?

Are you aware that Crystal Mangum had an active prescription for an anti-psychotic, Serroquel (used to treat schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, sudden episodes of mania or depression associated with bipolar disorder), at the time of the alleged rape?

Are you aware of the side effects of mixing Serroquel and alcohol?

“…If you drink alcohol while taking Seroquel, there are overlapping side effects that will worsen quickly. These include stumbling, memory loss, slurred speech, physical weakness….” ( https://areterecovery.com/seroquel/and-alcohol/ )

Throw some flexeril in that mix, do you think the symptoms get better or worse?

Those symptoms appear to me to be the same you’re blaming on a “Mickey Finn”, wouldn’t you agree?; September 5, 2022 at 6:21 PM
dhall said...: Thanks, Abe. Being over a decade removed from the Duke LAX case, I think a lot of anecdotal information from this and other websites has been pushed out so much it gets taken as verifiable truth.

I just chose to find my own resources. I was as much surprised as any of you regarding the SAE not being completed.; September 5, 2022 at 6:38 PM
kenhyderal said...: No Abe you were correct, In the Team Lawsuit and concerted trashing of SANE Nurse Levicy this issue was raised and widely circulated by an anti- Mangum pro- LaCrosse Team press. Neither Levicy or Dr. Manly did it as part of their rape kit protocol and they so noted but it was done initially by the Hospital but it was not subpoenaed by the plaintif's Lawyers for obvious reasons. These records now fall under HIPPA and would need to be supoenaed but this information was disclosed before and the drugs screened for ie. cocaine, heroin and GBH were negative. Levicy stated that Crystal showed no sign of having ingested alcohol.; September 5, 2022 at 8:46 PM
Anonymous said...: Kenny,

We’re waiting for you to explain your lie about the toxicology report. Or, will you just ignore your earlier statement?; September 6, 2022 at 4:06 AM
Anonymous said...: A quick note -- Mangum's visit to UNC Hospital ED was the 15th, nt the 14th.

There is no proof that DUMC completed any toxicology test. The team lawsuit only mentioned forensic toxicology tests once -- to note that they had not been done.

" Levicy stated that Crystal showed no sign of having ingested alcohol."

If so, it was an incorrect statement, as Mangum contradicted this herself while at the UNC Hospital ED while seeking pain medication.

If you believe Levicy --and apparently you do -- On January 10, 2007, She "...called [Linwood} Wilson to make a 'clarification' to her proffered testimony. In her clarification, Levicy said—for the first time—that the absence of DNA matching the lacrosse team members could also be explained by the fact that the alleged gang rape 'didn’t happen.' "

Nifong quit the case on January 12, 200t.; September 6, 2022 at 6:44 AM
Anonymous said...: "...but this information was disclosed before and the drugs screened for ie. cocaine, heroin and GBH were negative."

Disclosed where?

The information dhall found was "disclosed before", and he provided the sources for this disclosure.

Where are your sources?; September 6, 2022 at 7:05 AM
kenhyderal said...: @ dhall 9-5-22 6:21 Similar symptoms, yes but the diffrence is the sudden onset within minutes
and the very quick complete recovery an hour later that would not be characteristic of mixing seroquel and flexeril with alcohol.; September 6, 2022 at 10:12 AM
dhall said...: Quick recovery?

We know that Kroger security guard Angel Altmon called 911 at 1:22 am after attempting to get Mangum out of Kim Pittman's car and that Sgt. J.C. Shelton took her to the Durham County Jail to be detained until she sobered up (a 24 hour lock up), and the he later withdrew that hold order and directed officers to "initiate emergency involuntary commitment proceedings".

We know that later she was transported to the DUMC ED.

We know that Duke Police Department investigator, B. Jones, was dispatched to DUMC at approximately 3:50 a.m.(we don't know what time the interview began) and that Investigator Jones immediately smelled a strong odor of alcohol coming from Mangum, and that she gave a number of incorrect responses during his interview, then fell asleep.

This is not indicative of a "quick recovery an hour later".

All of this information is easily found.

You know what I haven't found? Any source for the claims you make -- nor have you provided any.
I welcome any you can offer.; September 6, 2022 at 1:01 PM
dhall said...: Kenhyderal -- read the document linked by anonymous September 5, 2022 at 4:37 PM.

Particularly paragraph 197. Apparently Mangum showed up impaired. This contradicts your "rapid onset and short acting" claim, and reinforces the alcohol/prescription drug argument.

Do you have a source for your claim that she arrived sober? please cite it.; September 6, 2022 at 1:30 PM
dhall said...: "but this information was disclosed before and the drugs screened for ie. cocaine, heroin and GBH were negative."

Robert Ekstrand had an expert witness willing to testify that the medical care Mangum received did not comply with applicable standard of care.

This would include the failure of DUMC to perform drug screenings as per their own SAER form.

I ask, where can I found when/where DUMC performed these tests?; September 6, 2022 at 1:37 PM
kenhyderal said...: @ Anonymouses 9-6-22 : Crystal suddenly showed no signs of intoxication when seen at the Intake Centre, having suddenly recovered. It was then she told workers there she had been raped. She was then sent to DUMC and having come form the Intake Center, she was given a drug screen. Crystal's screen came back negative for cannabis, cocaine, heroin and the date rape drugs rohypnol and GHB. It was done prior to her being examined for her rape. The Defence, in their trashing of SANE Nurse Levicy stated, "she had not done any toxicology" and she was pilloried for that. Again an attempt to discredit Levicy. They had no interest, though, to subpoena the negative results from the screen done upon her at her admission. Her toxicology result was widely reported by the media. Here's an example of what what one Liestopper had to say in 2014, using one of their filthy perjoratives for Crystal; "Crusty wasn't tested for drugs when she was at DUMC the morning of March 14th, 2006. Drug testing was apparently frowned upon at DUMC in rape cases since the defense would obviously have access to that information. It was only after Nifong, with no basis in fact, started claiming that she might have been drugged that she was tested. A 5-drug panel that didn't even test for the drugs Nifong had claimed, and was done so long afterward that the tests were meaningless." They were obviously relying on Levicy's "no toxicology done box check". It was done on admission and when DA Nifong pointed it out sometime later they claimed that it was done after the fact, as if it was only done at the time when DA Nifong accessed it.; September 6, 2022 at 6:28 PM
kenhyderal supporter said...: Kilgo has a friend who works at Duke Hospital and Kilgo told kenhyderal about the toxicology report.; September 7, 2022 at 4:15 AM
dhall said...: I’ve provided sources that dispute ever claim you’re making.

Kenhyderal, The burden of proof is on you when you make these claims. You continually fail to meet that burden of proof.

Until you do, there is no reason for anyone who reads these comments to believe anything you write.; September 7, 2022 at 5:52 AM
kenhyderal said...: @dhall. Like most Duke Lacrosse apologists you adhere to the Trump advisor Roger Stone's advice, admit nothing, deny all, attack everything. Do you honestly believe there was no toxicology done on on Crystal and the reports of it are somehow fabricated? Lets make a little wager, as gentlemen. We'll each put forward $100 USD and if it is proven she was tested you will donate it to Justice4nifong and is it's proven it was not I will donate it to a charity of your choice. Like mine your sources are just as anecdotal.; September 7, 2022 at 10:31 AM
dhall said...: From the top....
"you adhere to the Trump advisor Roger Stone's advice, admit nothing, deny all, attack everything."
If a new reader were to look at the comments here, which of US do you think they'd accuse of "admit nothing, deny all, attack everything" tactics?

Do you honestly believe there was no toxicology done on on Crystal and the reports of it are somehow fabricated?

I believe (and the documents confirm my belief) that there was no toxicology done at DUMC during the visit on March 14th. I also believe there was no toxicology tests performed during the visit to the UNC Hospital ED on March 15. Toxicology kits need to be collected within 4 days of the occurrence.

Outside of the SANE/SAFE - recommended 4 days, any toxicology results quite frankly don't matter. They're too far removed from the alleged date/time of the event. Don't like it? Take it up with the Sexual Assault Forensic Examiners.

"Lets make a little wager..."
Are you willing to adjust your wager to prove the test was conducted within the SANE/SAFE recommended 4 days?

Like mine your sources are just as anecdotal.

WRT my "anecdotal" sources:

Unlike your sources, I'm willing to identify mine.

My sources are from either News outlets or legal documents. News outlets have a responsibility to report the truth as they understand it at the time (Ask Sid).

In legal documents, source statements are "witness testimony". There are mechanisms in place to test witness evidence for reliability or credibility. I think it's safe to say that a lawyer would not put these statements into a legal document without confirming that those statements would pass those tests.

If you think the witnesses making these statements were lying, that's a discussion between you and those witnesses, not me. You can find those witness names in the lawsuit link. Ask them. be sure to let us know their responses.; September 7, 2022 at 2:49 PM
Anonymous said...: Kenhyderal- DHall didn’t state that “there was no toxicology done on Crystal”. He quoted the various articles, and specifically stated “…the SAE, including toxicology, was never completed by either Levicy or Manly.”

There was at least 1 tox screen done- Nifong stated this around the end of August, 2007.

There was no toxicology tests reported in the documents he turned over to the defense in May.

DHall is correct, and you and Abe are correct. Why months passed before this was performed is anyone’s guess. I’d expect it to be negative.; September 7, 2022 at 4:36 PM
kenhyderal said...: dhall said: "Are you willing to adjust your wager to prove the test was conducted within the SANE/SAFE recommended 4 days?"............ Yes; you're on, with your adjusted conditions and with the terms I previously stipulated.; September 7, 2022 at 6:57 PM
kenhyderal said...: @ Anonymous 9-7-22 : Former DA Nifong would not, after an inappropriate delay, proceed to obtain a meaningless toxicology report, to prove the victim was not using an illegal drug at the time she was sexually assaulted. That would make no sense.; September 7, 2022 at 7:04 PM
Anonymous said...: DHall - Here’s what I found regarding Mangum’s tox screen:

“It is revealed that a toxicology test of accuser Crystal Mangum’s hair turned up no signs of controlled substances. DA Nifong told defense lawyers of the negative results in a meeting Aug. 25.”

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/liestoppers_meeting/updated-chronology-of-duke-lacrosse-case-september-t12613.html

The webpage contains a hyperlink to a News&Observer article (“9/1/06 Toxicology Test Negative”), but that link is dead.

Kenny, see how easy that was?; September 7, 2022 at 7:53 PM
kenhyderal said...: @ Anonymous 9-8-22 Liestoppers has never posted anything, ever, that could be considered exculpatory to Crystal. My understanding is that routine blood and urine testing were done at DUMC on her admission as a rape victim. The SANE Nurse and Dr. Manley did not, later, collect samples for toxicologyand so noted on there notes.; September 8, 2022 at 8:39 AM
dhall said...: Hmmm..Quite the conundrum, Kenhyderal.

We know no toxicology information was in the evidence turned over by Mike Nifong on May 18.

We know that no one at DUMC ordered a toxicology test during the SANE examination.

We know that by August 25, a test had been performed with a negative result.

So what you're saying is that the test was performed at some time March 14.

One would think that information regarding toxicology tests performed in that time would be included in the evidence turned over by Mike Nifong. because, according to you, "[f]ormer DA Nifong would not, after an inappropriate delay, proceed to obtain a meaningless toxicology report, to prove the victim was not using an illegal drug at the time she was sexually assaulted".
Of course, Mike Nifong was guilty of withholding other evidence, so it wouldn't be surprising if he didn't include that information.

So just so we are clear:

As gentlemen. We'll each put forward $100 USD and if it is proven that a sample from Crystal Mangum was taken the day of her visit to DUMC (14 March 2007 -- that is, "at the time she was physically assaulted"), I will donate it to Justice4nifong and is it's proven it was not you will donate it to a charity of my choice.

Is that accurate?; September 8, 2022 at 9:24 AM
dhall said...: Thank you, Anonymous @ September 7, 2022 at 7:53 PM

Like Kenyderal, I don't consider Liestoppers a reliable resource. From what I've seen, it exists more to throw insults at people than to provide useful information.

This timeline, however, does appear legitimate -- and at least the author provided links to back up his statements (take note, Kenhyderal).

I'm confident that the News & Observer link was correct at one time, so I am willing to accept that Mike Nifong at some point had a Toxicology test performed. It's unfortunate we can't (from this link) identify when the test was performed or what was tested for.

Perhaps Kenhyderal or Dr. Harr will...enlighten us.; September 8, 2022 at 9:30 AM
dhall said...: Kenhyderal --
You stating the toxicology test happened is not proof. Dr. Harr stating it happened is not proof. Crystal Mangum stating it happened is not proof (the lawsuit shows she has a tendency to...remember incorrectly).

before we continue with our bet what do you consider proof?; September 8, 2022 at 11:04 AM
kenhyderal said...: @ dhall 9-8-22 9:24 AM : Yes, correct. Upon admission to DUMC Emergency, Crystal, saying she was raped, had her blood drawn and urine collected.; September 8, 2022 at 1:45 PM
kenhyderal supporter said...: I’m proud to call kenhyderal my friend.; September 8, 2022 at 8:22 PM
dhall said...: You’re on, Kenhyderal.

As gentlemen. We'll each put forward $100 USD and if it is proven that a sample from Crystal Mangum was taken for a toxicology test the day of her visit to DUMC (14 March 2007 -- that is, "at the time she was physically assaulted"), I will donate it to Justice4nifong and is it's proven it was not you will donate it to a charity of my choice.

Do you accept?; September 9, 2022 at 5:09 AM
Anonymous said...: Kenny -- Are you familiar with hospital practices?

You know that blood and urine are collected in hospitals for tests other than toxicology, right?

If they took blood, it was most likely taken for a CBC (looking for infection indicators), and/or a chemistry profile (looking for things like heart attacks, diabetic problems, kidney issues).

Any urinalysis done was most likely looking for urinary tract infections, kidney disease or diabetes.

Samples are used for toxicology tests only when specifically ordered, and if the tox screen isn't ordered, it isn't performed.

If you don't believe me, ask Sid -- He was an ER doctor.

There was no toxicology screen performed on CGM during her DUMC visit. No one ordered it.; September 9, 2022 at 6:52 AM
kenhyderal said...: dhall said " before we continue with our bet what do you consider proof?"........ How about a DUMC record?; September 9, 2022 at 8:19 AM
dhall said...: Fair enough. We have a bet then?

As gentlemen. Kenhyderal and DHall will each put forward $100 USD and if it is proven that a sample from Crystal Mangum was taken for a toxicology test the day of her visit to DUMC (14 March 2007 -- that is, "at the time she was physically assaulted"), DHall will donate it to Justice4nifong and is it's proven it was not Kenhyderal will donate it to a charity of DHall's choice.

Before you make up your mind - Are you sure this proof shows specifically that blood/urine samples were taken for a toxicology test or that a toxicology order was placed?

Think about it carefully before you accept the bet.; September 9, 2022 at 2:06 PM
kenhyderal said...: @dhal: Toxicology, done on the samples drawn on March 15th and properly preserved. These results are appended to the hospital history of her treatment.; September 9, 2022 at 8:10 PM
kenhyderal said...: @dhal: Toxicology, done on the samples drawn on March 15th and properly preserved. These results are appended to the hospital history of her treatment.; September 9, 2022 at 8:11 PM
Anonymous said...: Kenny,

Why are you ignoring the post at 6:52 AM on September 9?; September 9, 2022 at 9:35 PM
dhall said...: Dr. Harr has my email address. Send that information from the DUMC record to me so I can confirm it.

Is your March 15th a typo?; September 9, 2022 at 10:34 PM
kenhyderal supporter said...: Dr. Harr,

How will you spend the $100 that dhall is contributing to J4N?; September 10, 2022 at 6:09 AM
Anonymous said...: Kenny - If the were drawn on the 15th, then they were not drawn on 14 March 2007 -- that is, "at the time she was physically assaulted".

Am I missing something here?

You , a man of admittedly lower means, knowingly took a bet you knew you had lost?; September 10, 2022 at 6:12 AM
Anonymous said...: It sounds like someone had a toxicology screen done later (possibly much later) on the samples taken on March 15(? I thought the visit was on March 14)

Not that it matters, because the bet says “for a toxicology test the day of her visit”…So it doesn’t matter what day the samples were taken, what matters is when the test was ordered.; September 10, 2022 at 8:22 AM
kenhyderal said...: Anonymous said: "Why are you ignoring the post at 6:52 AM on September 9?"........... i have no familiarity with hospital practices, however I do know blood and urine can be drawn for purposes other than toxicology however Crystal had no symptoms of infections, includin urinary tract infections and she did not suffer from diabetes or kidney disease. It is my understanding that patients admitted from the Intake Centre, where they were taken because of a state of intoxication, are screened for the possible usual intoxicants. The Intake sent Crystal there because of her rape and as we know whatever intoxicant effects she had suffered from had suddenly ended. Toxicology was done and when and when proof of that is shown dhall will have lost the wager.; September 10, 2022 at 5:49 PM
dhall said...: Well? I’m waiting for your proof. Dr. Harr has my contact information.; September 12, 2022 at 5:17 AM
kenhyderal supporter said...: dhall,

I believe that kenhyderal should post the proof on Dr. Harr’s blog, so that there will be no dispute that he won the bet. I also recommend that Dr. Harr use the $100 to purchase additional crying towels for some of his readers.; September 12, 2022 at 5:50 AM
Anonymous said...: Are you going to let us know more about the motion in opposition to your Motion for Expedited Hearing?; September 12, 2022 at 10:19 AM
Anonymous said...: dhall,

Any sign of Kenny’s proof?; September 13, 2022 at 9:39 AM
dhall said...: At this time, I've received nothing from Kenhyderal or Dr. Harr.

I don't think Kenhyderal has my email address -- so he would need to send it to Dr. Harr, who would forward it on to me.

Dr. Harr may be too busy to check his email. I know his last response here was over 2 weeks ago.; September 13, 2022 at 11:30 AM
Anonymous said...: Kenny,

Where is your proof?; September 13, 2022 at 3:51 PM
Anonymous said...: Kenny,

Show us the proof.; September 14, 2022 at 4:40 AM
kenhyderal supporter said...: I understand that kenhyderal has requested a copy of the toxicology from Kilgo’s friend who works at Duke Hospital. Please be patient.; September 14, 2022 at 10:39 AM
dhall said...: I've checked my SPAM emails, just in case -- nothing from Dr. Harr since this discussion began.

Kenhyderal, you can always ask for my email address from Dr. Harr. He has my permission to share it with you.; September 14, 2022 at 4:31 PM
Anonymous said...: Kenny,

Where are you? dhall is waiting for the proof.; September 15, 2022 at 4:45 AM
Anonymous said...: Kenny,

Where is the proof? Have you been lying again?; September 15, 2022 at 5:35 AM
Anonymous said...: Kenny,

Why are you hiding?; September 16, 2022 at 3:54 AM
kenhyderal said...: Et al : Be patient; I will in due course show proof. Meanwhile there is no pssibility whatsoever that dhall can collect on the wager as it's much has easier for me to prove a positive than for him to prove a negative. Everyone conceed she was testeted and results were provided at a later date. The only real question is when was it done. Crystal never gave blood or urine samples at any other time than her admission to DUMC.; September 16, 2022 at 1:51 PM
Anonymous said...: Read the bet, Kenhyderal. If the toxicology test wasn’t performed on the 14tn of March, you lose.; September 17, 2022 at 5:16 AM

Saturday, August 27, 2022

Mangum v. DHHS, et al.: Motion for Expedited Hearing

97 comments:

Facebook Badge

Subscribe!

Labels

Blog Archive

About Me